Type 4 head stud washers

Zed999 · Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:40 am Post subject: Type 4 head stud washers

Easy one?
Apart from being thicker than run of the mill washers, is there anything special about them? Extra hard maybe?

I ask because out VW Heritage don't list them, but do list M8 at £1.67 each (eek!). I can buy a bag of 100 m10 heavy duty thick washers for £3.50 and the fact that Heritage aren't buying these and reselling at a massive mark up made me wonder if there's something more to them than meets the eye.

One for Ray maybe.

Full story: retorquing the heads after 15,000 miles, I find too many plain m10 washers and I'm thinking and hoping that these thin things with the 15mm spanner M10 nuts may be to blame. The worst side certainly has more of them. I don't want to be going through this again in a muddy car park any time soon, I'm 60 and it isn't the fun it was 20 years ago. Smile

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

bugguy1967 · Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

Use the Type 1 M10 head washers. They'll fit better in the T4 over the T1. I have them if you need some. The nuts are special - M10 thread, 17mm O.D., but heavy instead of shallow.
_________________
"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine"

Zed999 · Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

SGKent · Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

bugguy1967 · Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

jsturtlebuggy · Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

Buguy1967 I don't know what type 4 engine you have been working on.
In the hundreds I rebuilt and done other work on since the 1970s, all the head nuts and washers were the same as early type 1 engines. 10x 1.5mm thread with a 15mm head.
Now if you are mixing up head nuts with case bolts and nut, yes the case nuts are 10x1.25mm with a 17mm head and the case washer were thicker then the head was washer.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

Zed999 · Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:08 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

Thanks for the replies.

Are we saying the rather nice looking 3mm thick washers with a chamfer on the outer edge one side are in fact case washers? And the 2mm thick ones I thought were the wrong ones are the correct head ones? Both are 10.5 x 21mm.

Zed999 · Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

These are the washers. You can see how little contact they have with the 15mm nuts. I'm not really comfortable with this, it just doesn't feel right. The thin one will go again, the other side is smooth, that said it's not as gouged as it looks, more like scratched.

jsturtlebuggy · Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

Measuring the washers I have,
Head nut washers 1.80 to 2.2mm
Case washer 2.97 to 3.40mm

The head nut washer and case washer show the same pattern you are seeing where head nut contacts.
There is not a problem with that pattern.
I would be more concerned if washers were not flat, like a concave surface.
Stock washers are harden and should not bend.

You should have only 12 of the thicker washers for the case through bolts.
Any you can usually tell on head nut washers where they were mounted. The ones that show not rust were under the valve cover and the rusting ones were mounted on the top exposed to the elements inside the shrouding.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

Zed999 · Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:17 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

So the 2mm washers I thought too thin are the correct ones, the 3mm ones I thought correct are over spec and the M10/15mm nuts are correct. This has turned out well, I can put it back together with the fixings I have and the weather forecast for today is dry. Happy days!

Thanks to all for your knowledgeable assistance.

bugguy1967 · Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

Ah, okay. I just recieved a core and it had 17mm heavy nuts. Thought those were originals. All my cores here are without stud nuts till this one came. I produced these extremely thick .250" washers, but they're .899" on the O.D., and will only fit type 4s if the heads are spot-faced larger.
_________________
"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine"

Zed999 · Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 head stud washers

I have a suspicion that I wouldn't be torquing the heads at all if I hadn't fitted a wideband gauge and done a million WOT runs. I never WOT normally and was never happy with the jetting done with afr...the sensor is now broken anyway and I put the jetting back to how it was before I started, which both me and the engine liked fine. Sometimes you have to laugh or you'd cry.


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions		Share:
		Print View

	Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1