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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12854
Location: North Carolina
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 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: Hagerty article |
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I just tripped across this article, thought I’d share...
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2...lian-shape
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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rbsurfguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008
Posts: 1757
Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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Awesome article, thanks for sharing. I laughed at the commercial where the Ghia couldn't get through the paper sheet! Remembering some of those old VW ads when I was a kid.
Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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Wiggy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 6601
Location: Downingtown, PA
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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| Hagerty.com wrote: |
...
All-things air-cooled (well, mainly Porsches) came back into style in a big way in 2014–15, and although Karmann Ghias don’t have Porsche performance, they’re made with similar ingredients and, of course, there are those good looks. We recorded a massive 80-percent spike in condition #2 values in 2015, right in the middle of Porsche-mania. That surge predated recent growth for Beetles and even growth for the Porsche 914. Karmann Ghia prices have been steadier since then, however, with just 4-percent growth since 2015. Most of that growth has been for convertibles in top condition, and currently coupes are worth about 28-percent less than their soft-top siblings. And now that things have settled down, the Karmann Ghia currently carries a Hagerty Vehicle Rating of 56.
[The HVR, based on a scale of 0–100, measures how a collector vehicle is performing compared to the overall market. A score below 50 means a car is lagging behind the market, 50 means it is keeping pace, and a score above 50 indicates a hot market—the higher, the hotter.]
A rating of 56 is a big rebound from the Karmann Ghia’s previous rating of 37, but it still puts it in roughly the middle of the market. The metrics that make up the rating (Hagerty Price Guide values, insurance and quoting activity, private and auction sales) point to things staying where they are.
And where is that? Values range from $6100 for a condition #4 (fair) later coupe to $57,600 for a best-in-the-world 1958–63 convertible, while driver-quality examples can be had from the low to upper teens, depending on year and body style. |
All very interesting, and all "Good News". 
...now if buyers could just begin to believe that hype, perhaps guys like iowegian could collect an actual sale price that's much closer to what these cars should be worth considering their rare combination of elegant classic style and semi-coachbuilt construction.
For me, the author loses a bit of credibility when they fail to note the distinction between the value of a lowlight Karmann Ghia Ccabriolet vs. the later models and just clump together the 1958 to 1963 model years.
Then again, they probably know more than I do so perhaps that lowlight price premium that previously existed is fading away as the supply of available clean Karmann Ghia Cabriolets begins to dwindle. |
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52brezelfenster
Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2005
Posts: 761
Location: OR
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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Obviously the "Dual Exhaust" mentioned in the Highlights section of the vehicle listing will help command a premium price. 
Sea Blue is a very lovely color, though, and hopefully that will help catch the eye of someone with deep pockets. |
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rcooled
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 2506
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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| Wiggy wrote: |
| $57k for a best in world lowlight convertible? I don't think so... |
| retrowagen wrote: |
| Highest I've heard of yet is $85k for a beautiful Cabriolet; $60k or so for a Coupe (the highly unoriginal but still attractive Coupe with Judson that Wayne Carini flipped). |
_________________
'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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Wiggy
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 6601
Location: Downingtown, PA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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| rcooled wrote: |
| Wiggy wrote: |
| $57k for a best in world lowlight convertible? I don't think so... |
| retrowagen wrote: |
| Highest I've heard of yet is $85k for a beautiful Cabriolet; $60k or so for a Coupe (the highly unoriginal but still attractive Coupe with Judson that Wayne Carini flipped). |
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There have been a few traded at the 75 to 85k level. I wouldn’t sell my 58 for that low of a price, that’s for sure.
_________________
Kevin "Wiggy"
My 58 Ghia Vert
My 51 Split 11G
My 57 Deluxe
My 56 Oval |
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John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13954
Location: Southampton U.K.
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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They claim to use a lot of data to arrive at their price estimations. Of ourse they aren't going to know about insider trades or cash deals and the few outlier big public sales are going to be averaged in with all the low ball sales.
Good news is our cars continue to go up in value.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
They claim to use a lot of data to arrive at their price estimations. Of ourse they aren't going to know about insider trades or cash deals and the few outlier big public sales are going to be averaged in with all the low ball sales.
Good news is our cars continue to go up in value. |
I have no idea how Hagerty comes up with their prices, but I do know that they
are willing to insure my Ghia for WAY more than it is selling for.  |
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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Hey as long as you're willing to pay the premium they'll insure it for whatever you want
_________________
1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4927
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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Fools and their money are soon parted.
bnc
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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52brezelfenster
Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2005
Posts: 761
Location: OR
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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Saw this one go over the block TV last night. Not sure if it has an ownership history back to a samba member(s) but if so, really nice job on the preservation to those folks involved. Beautiful original interior, tidy engine bay, great stance. It showed really well. Almost got to 30k but it wasn't enough to cut it loose.
Will make someone a great cruiser once it finds a new home.
| KGCoupe wrote: |
Obviously the "Dual Exhaust" mentioned in the Highlights section of the vehicle listing will help command a premium price.
Sea Blue is a very lovely color, though, and hopefully that will help catch the eye of someone with deep pockets. |
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jason_hamilton
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2003
Posts: 1118
Location: Abbotsford, BC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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BringATrailer is a nice way to monitor the market as well.
_________________
Jason Hamilton
1969 Karmann Ghia coupe
@MiddleAgedHoon |
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Douglas Denlinger
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1382
Location: Arizona's version of the east coast
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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Once upon a time, I restored this car......almost had the opportunity to buy it back. Sold at the art gallery sale in LA, CA. So other then the knowledgable few here no one knew of the sales price. Let alone the restoration cost put into that car by a retired dentist who's father previously owned a VW dealership in the 50's/60's.
I've been looking for an original lowlight hardtop metal sunroof car as of late.....those that have been presented to me are well north of $35k for cars that require complete restorations. Lots of speculation in the Ghia market without substantiated sales to back up the ridiculous asking price for projects.
There have been several "finished" restoration or cleaned up older restored hardtop lowlights for sale for months on end priced between $25K-35K or more with no takers. Just my observations.
Definitely agree 55-59 need to be separated from 60-63, just as 64-67 and 68-70, etc, etc. should be defined a different class of Ghia.
_________________
Transporter Restorations
Upholstery Haus
Active 23 Window Samba Collector/Restorer,since 1986
Last edited by Douglas Denlinger on Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11004
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| Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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| Douglas Denlinger wrote: |
Once upon a time, I restored this car......almost had the opportunity to buy it back. Sold at the art gallery sale in LA, CA. So other then the knowledgable few here no one knew of the sales price. Let alone the restoration cost put into that car by a retired dentist who's father previously owned a VW dealership in the 50's/60's.
I've been looking for an original lowlight hardtop metal sunroof car as of late.....those that have been presented to me are well north of $35k for complete restorations, lots of speculation in the Ghia market without substantiated sales to back up the ridiculous asking price for projects.
There have been several "finished" restoration or cleaned up older restored hardtop lowlights for sale for months on end priced between $25K-35K or more with no takers. Just my observations.
Definitely agree 55-59 need to be separated from 60-63, just as 64-67 and 68-70, etc, etc. should be defined a different class of Ghia. |
You can't restore a lowlight correctly for $25k.
No wonder there are very few professionally done restorations on Ghias.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Douglas Denlinger
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1382
Location: Arizona's version of the east coast
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| Douglas Denlinger wrote: |
Once upon a time, I restored this car......almost had the opportunity to buy it back. Sold at the art gallery sale in LA, CA. So other then the knowledgable few here no one knew of the sales price. Let alone the restoration cost put into that car by a retired dentist who's father previously owned a VW dealership in the 50's/60's.
I've been looking for an original lowlight hardtop metal sunroof car as of late.....those that have been presented to me are well north of $35k for complete restorations, lots of speculation in the Ghia market without substantiated sales to back up the ridiculous asking price for projects.
There have been several "finished" restoration or cleaned up older restored hardtop lowlights for sale for months on end priced between $25K-35K or more with no takers. Just my observations.
Definitely agree 55-59 need to be separated from 60-63, just as 64-67 and 68-70, etc, etc. should be defined a different class of Ghia. |
You can't restore a lowlight correctly for $25k.
No wonder there are very few professionally done restorations on Ghias. |
Hence the "finished" in quotations.....
_________________
Transporter Restorations
Upholstery Haus
Active 23 Window Samba Collector/Restorer,since 1986 |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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| Douglas Denlinger wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
| Douglas Denlinger wrote: |
Once upon a time, I restored this car......almost had the opportunity to buy it back. Sold at the art gallery sale in LA, CA. So other then the knowledgable few here no one knew of the sales price. Let alone the restoration cost put into that car by a retired dentist who's father previously owned a VW dealership in the 50's/60's.
I've been looking for an original lowlight hardtop metal sunroof car as of late.....those that have been presented to me are well north of $35k for complete restorations, lots of speculation in the Ghia market without substantiated sales to back up the ridiculous asking price for projects.
There have been several "finished" restoration or cleaned up older restored hardtop lowlights for sale for months on end priced between $25K-35K or more with no takers. Just my observations.
Definitely agree 55-59 need to be separated from 60-63, just as 64-67 and 68-70, etc, etc. should be defined a different class of Ghia. |
You can't restore a lowlight correctly for $25k.
No wonder there are very few professionally done restorations on Ghias. |
Hence the "finished" in quotations..... |
It's my impression that the number of surviving "original lowlight hardtop metal sunroof" Karmann Ghias can probably be counted on one hand.
I'm by no means an expert on that subject, though, but even if I'm off by a factor of 10X that still means what you are looking for is rare and would (or at least theoretically, should) carry an associated premium in value.
... but then you already knew that.
To me, though, that would be the "ultimate" Karmann Ghia to find/own. |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Hagerty article |
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| Douglas Denlinger wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
| Douglas Denlinger wrote: |
Once upon a time, I restored this car......almost had the opportunity to buy it back. Sold at the art gallery sale in LA, CA. So other then the knowledgable few here no one knew of the sales price. Let alone the restoration cost put into that car by a retired dentist who's father previously owned a VW dealership in the 50's/60's.
I've been looking for an original lowlight hardtop metal sunroof car as of late.....those that have been presented to me are well north of $35k for complete restorations, lots of speculation in the Ghia market without substantiated sales to back up the ridiculous asking price for projects.
There have been several "finished" restoration or cleaned up older restored hardtop lowlights for sale for months on end priced between $25K-35K or more with no takers. Just my observations.
Definitely agree 55-59 need to be separated from 60-63, just as 64-67 and 68-70, etc, etc. should be defined a different class of Ghia. |
You can't restore a lowlight correctly for $25k.
No wonder there are very few professionally done restorations on Ghias. |
Hence the "finished" in quotations..... |
Yeah, I just looked at the ones up for sale, not a single one is done correctly. Not even sure if that makes a difference in price...are there even any serious collectors into lowlight Ghias who even know what is correct and are willing to pay?
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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