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no oil pressure
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

Teammo wrote:
SGKent wrote:


no - the pump puts out enough volume that something should have come out the sender hole when you were cranking. If you have oil and the pump is turning there should be oil gushing from the sender hole even if the pump lost prime. I think I would drain the oil and see if there is any debris in the oil or on the strainer. Remember 9 ft pounds only on the nut on the strainer or it can break a part in the engine. Make sure the strainer isn't covered in goo etc.


dropped oil into a paint strainer - looks good and clean no foreign particles, removed strainer - also clean no signs of foreign particles. Oil filter also looks normal.
Do I proceed to remove top cover plate for oil pump? Thanks for all the advice- truly appreciate the help!!


If you have a steel cover plate, you have a Type 1 pump.
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Spike0180
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

Watching. Keep us posted. This is an interesting one.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

My guess is the pump failed. Not very common
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Teammo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
So, the engine started and you saw zero oil pressure or it didn't start?

Correct oil light didnít go off.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

Do you have any history on this engine? Might be that the oil pump drive tang was just barely engaging the cam slot and it finally wore away or maybe the pressed on drive gear is now spinning on the shaft.
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Teammo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

removed oil pump cover and gears. some scoring on the plate (not sure if normal). see attached pictures
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

what are we looking at with the buggered up hole on the left side, and the ramp, and that 30 HD on the right.? Does that gear sit all the way down? Is it the photo angle. It looks like the gear has been rubbing in those areas???

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This is what a T1 pump looks like (from Internet)

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Caveat: I am not telling you what to, or what not to do. When a suggestion is offered, it is wishing you the best, and is based on my experiences as a mechanic, automotive machinist, and from racing in the era your bus came to life. I love winning but now I figure it is your turn. My goal is only to share what has been learned on my path. Smile

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Teammo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

SGkent - It is a bad angle as I still have the fan shroud on, The gears seem to fit down and turn as I turn the engine by hand. I am not sure on the clearance between the plate and gears. i will have to pick up some plasi gauge.As for the hole looking funny I am not sure if PO modified the opening?
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

Your pump is scrap. Put the drive gear shaft in a vise and grab the toothed gear with some pliers and see if it spins on the shaft.
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Teammo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Do you have any history on this engine? Might be that the oil pump drive tang was just barely engaging the cam slot and it finally wore away or maybe the pressed on drive gear is now spinning on the shaft.


The engine has solid lifters (came original with hydraulic lifters PO installed them ) and re-ringed and 2 guides put in 5000 miles ago. I did most of the work but not the heads. Case was not split as I was advised not to cause everything thing checked out. May of been bad advice?
Ran great for the 5000 miles till yesterday
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Teammo
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Your pump is scrap. Put the drive gear shaft in a vise and grab the toothed gear with some pliers and see if it spins on the shaft.

just tried that, I cannot turn the gear on the shaft
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

Teammo wrote:
aeromech wrote:
Your pump is scrap. Put the drive gear shaft in a vise and grab the toothed gear with some pliers and see if it spins on the shaft.

just tried that, I cannot turn the gear on the shaft


It sure looks like the shaft walked and is digging into the lid. I've pulled apart a lot of oil pumps and never seen what you have there. I notice in the pic that the drive gear is dull on the tooth ends and the driven gear is shinny. This is because the shaft hitting the lid creates a gap causing a loss of pressure. I think
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

Blech, thatís pump is dreck.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

Well, you definitely have a pump problem but it should have created pressure. Whatís the cam gear slot look like?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

Very odd wear. The teeth look like metal particles have been through them but the cover plate and case don't seem to show that kind of wear. The hole worn in the cover is as others mentioned very odd as well. The tang on the driven shaft looks to have been well engaged in the slot in the cam.

If the lack of pressure isn't the gear slipping on the shaft, I am wondering if it isn't due to one of the relief valves being stuck all the way open.


Last edited by Wildthings on Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

Thatís a good thing to check
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

It is hard to explain the wear on the plate because the sand marks are in the same direction on the driven shaft as the gear, implying the gear has not moved on the shaft. I suspect, and it is only a suspicion, that the driven shaft has been pushed out until it no longer engages in the cam. The same might happen if the cam gear thrust bearing failed and the cam moved further into the case.

The idler shaft appears to be working into the outer plate. Usually it goes the other way. I think these are scrape marks where the driven gear has been spinning on the cam gear. It will take a close inspection by someone who can touch, feel and see the parts up close. You might rock the engine crankshaft back and forth just a little bit and see if the camshaft walks in and out as you do that. There should only be a few thousands forwards and backwards movement on the cam.

IMHO - From the amount of varnish & color of those parts that engine has a lot more than 5000 miles on it. The 1.8 engine was like 1975 or thereabouts. The 1978 was a 2.0L. Sounds like a proper rebuild time.

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Godspeed to all who undertake a journey in a VW Bus. You only get one shot at life - go out and enjoy it - let the Light shine.

Caveat: I am not telling you what to, or what not to do. When a suggestion is offered, it is wishing you the best, and is based on my experiences as a mechanic, automotive machinist, and from racing in the era your bus came to life. I love winning but now I figure it is your turn. My goal is only to share what has been learned on my path. Smile

1971 (sold)
1977
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Teammo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Well, you definitely have a pump problem but it should have created pressure. Whatís the cam gear slot look like?

here are a few more pictures.
relief valves have a few scoring marks but didn't appear to be stuck in the bores.
is it possible that the oil is not making it to the pump inlet?
I cranked it over while observing the cam -didn't move in or out and feels tight.


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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

your pump is not only scrap, but the tang appears too shallow. Set it up against a TIV pump and see how deep the tang is compared to a TIV pump. I don't think the pump is turning anymore.
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Godspeed to all who undertake a journey in a VW Bus. You only get one shot at life - go out and enjoy it - let the Light shine.

Caveat: I am not telling you what to, or what not to do. When a suggestion is offered, it is wishing you the best, and is based on my experiences as a mechanic, automotive machinist, and from racing in the era your bus came to life. I love winning but now I figure it is your turn. My goal is only to share what has been learned on my path. Smile

1971 (sold)
1977
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Teammo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: no oil pressure Reply with quote

I for sure need a pump and cover plate. Where do you guys recommend to purchase one?
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