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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:27 pm Post subject: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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Can anyone give me the rundown on how people typical use propane for our cooking stoves? What kind of canisters (fotos, links), and where to buy, and where to get filled.
I am now designing my new kitchen cab unit and need to know the typical dimensions of typical canisters....
...also what kind of hook-ups are used. I will buy this stove probably... https://www.amazon.ca/Texsport-Compact-Propane-Out...&psc=1 will I have buy a special hook-up adapter?
Thanks! _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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jimf909 Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014 Posts: 7466 Location: WA/ID
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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Probably the most common is the disposable 1lb bottle. There's a legal refillable 1lb bottle now available.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=1+lb+propane&adgrpi...507yz37b_e
Next are refillable bottles of all sizes made of steel and fiberglass. These have a different fitting than the 1lb cans. The 1lb bottles are super convenient but create waste. The refillable versions create less waste. A composite tank is lightweight but not expensive than steel versions.
https://www.amazon.com/17lb-Capacity-Lightweight-C...amp;sr=8-1
That stove you show uses the 16.4 oz (1lb disposable cans). The last photo of the package says this.
This stove doesn't cost much more but has wind screens and twice the btu per burner.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01N23DXND/ref=dp_cerb_1
An easy answer? Get a stove that runs off the 16.4 oz disposable or refillable cans.
That's a start. There's more to learn. Enjoy. _________________ - Jim
Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6544 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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Hey Ed, are you looking to mount a propane stove in your custom cabinetry?
And attach it to a Westy propane tank under the van?
With all respect to Jim, the Coleman bottles are environmentally very poor, very expensive day-by-day, may not be easy to find where you are, and will totally shut you down if you run out of fuel at a bad time.
You might research options to use a Westy propane tank -- and possibly find a RV-style stovetop or better yet a Westy stovetop -- if getting lucky enough to find one.
Texsport has a long history of making really second-rate equipment, too. Based at least on some of their stuff I tried quite a while back, there's no way I'd trust any stove of theirs inside a van.
I have no referrals, Sorry, but with all you'll put into making a custom system I'd find the best stove you possibly can -- and one that's cheap to operate. Our fuel bill is roughly $4 per month cooking constantly in the van, and the idea of any larger propane tank inside the van freaks me out, honestly. They're pressurized bombs if getting into a crash.
All the Best. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32598 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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Thanks!
Does this MARTIN stove run off the refillable 16.4oz cans? It does not seem clear on the package.
E1 wrote: |
Hey Ed, are you looking to mount a propane stove in your custom cabinetry? |
I was not aware that Westys have their own propane tanks mounted underneath the van.... if you have one, how is it re-filled? What is it's max. capacity?
E1 wrote: |
And attach it to a Westy propane tank under the van?
Our fuel bill is roughly $4 per month cooking constantly in the van.
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How do you manage this?
In Europe...our total usage (a lot of daily cooking) came to about $10 a month (OK, very similar to you )… using refillable 5KG canisters.
I am considering these https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-Refillable-Propa...amp;sr=8-5 refillable 1LB cans... but would like to know:
- how much it costs to refill?
- where to refill - and if refilling stations are hard to find in N. America?
- if a stove which works off the disposable 1LB can will ALSO work the same way off of the refillable 1LB can?
If I go this way I would have 2 1LB refillable cans - and each would last us about one week, so that would mean that every 7 - 14 days we would need to find a refill station >>> this would be no problem if they are common place --- if not this could be a nightmare. _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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photogdave Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004 Posts: 3052 Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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OK, I just called these guys and got many answers -
20lb CANISTER IS STANDARD SIZE - $59 for FILLED CANISTER
7.5KG empty ….8.3KG propane TOTAL 16kg
approx 18' high X 12” wide
FILLING COSTS $22 for 17 litres
which will last for: 4 months = $5/month
At the BBY store I can get adapters for going from the canister to whatever stove I purchase.
THANKS! _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2323 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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The refillable 1lb cans are designed to be refilled by the user, not a store (though I'm sure some will). So you'd still need to have either loads of refillables or carry a 20lb tank as well.
In your case, I'd be thinking of buying a second-hand Westy tank, as some people will buy a new one rather than tackle the surface rust on the older ones. You'd then clean it up and repaint it, replace the valves, and mount it under the van. This would be a 3 US gallon tank, containing 2.4 gallons when full at 80% capacity. This is about 10lb of propane, and possibly the cheapest way to have a long-term solution. Any propane supplier should be able to refill the tank. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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fxr Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014 Posts: 2323 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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epowell wrote: |
OK, I just called these guys and got many answers -
20lb CANISTER IS STANDARD SIZE - $59 for FILLED CANISTER
7.5KG empty ….8.3KG propane TOTAL 16kg
approx 18' high X 12” wide
FILLING COSTS $22 for 17 litres
which will last for: 4 months = $5/month
At the BBY store I can get adapters for going from the canister to whatever stove I purchase.
THANKS! |
How are you going to legally carry that tank? You'd need a firewalled compartment with venting direct to atmosphere. _________________ Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6544 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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Ed, a standard Westy tank is 3.3 gallons but shouldn't be filled above about 2.5.
Last fill we did, from empty, shut the pump off at 2.6 which means the relief valve is working properly.
Our average use is around a gallon per month, and we tend to do long simmers on soup, chili, and rice-based dishes. Plus coffee every day. On average we eat 1.5 cooked meals a day.
The filler connection is a standard device that's been at every filling station we've visited, which is about 30 to 40 different stations now. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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Aha.... it is not legal to carry a 20lb canister in the van? In Europe I take a just lightly smaller canister around everywhere - - when I bought the van the guy had 3 of them in there. Of course it won't be visible - and in BC there are no vehicle inspections > so someone would have to be pretty nosey to check. . . so I am wondering if this is really an issue. Certainly it seems the easiest and cheapest option - just to get one of these 20lb canisters.
- - -
Getting the stock Westy (underbody) propane tank would be great of course - but I'm guessing would cost a bundle new - ------> second hand would probably still cost a bundle and be a major amount of work.
- - -
We use about 1lb of propane a week... so I could buy the 20lb canister and 4lb canisters for a one month trip. This option seems easier and cheaper and lighter than going to stock Westy tank... I could just keep the 20lb canister at home for self-filling _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6544 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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New Westy tanks are maybe $400-500, re-valving an old one should be under $100.
Others may disagree, but as one who's rolled a Westy and had several propane leaks, a tank in the van is something I'd never even consider. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17124 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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Blue Rhino in Canada? Sounds like you won't be doing a lot of trips but using it more as a cabin. I traded in my BBQ tank at Lowes for a Blue Rhino one. My tank was 15 years plus old and quite rusted. They take the tank as a core regardless of condition. When it runs out, I can swing by a Blue Rhino and get a filled exchanged tank. Works out pretty good for the BBQ.
Its probably not a problem in Canada, but in the south it is not uncommon for the van's interior to get to 130 F on a sunny day. I'm pretty sure most compressed tanks have some sort of built in pressure relief. I would not want a tank relieving itself inside our van.
The factory propane tank works great as mentioned. Problem is for you it would depend on the van being drivable when you need a fill. We've rented California camper vans twice in Europe. They included 2 bottles that were larger than the green disposable ones we have and I don't recall anything specific to secure them in place. They were just stowed in a compartment you could access through the rear doors. Somehow we survived both trips.
If you find you need a diesel transmission for it. I have a low mileage diesel 4 speed I pulled out of our 82. Too bad both places you live are so far away. Mark _________________ ☮️ |
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kiltedhiker Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2016 Posts: 108
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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I have used the refillable Flame King for many years now. They are refilled at my local propane supplier for $2 per 1# canister. There is a refill yourself option.
North Westy sells an adapter to hookup to a Westy stove.
http://north-westy.com/north-westy-parts/lp-elimination-kit |
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kiltedhiker Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2016 Posts: 108
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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I have used the refillable Flame King for many years now. They are refilled at my local propane supplier for $2 per 1# canister. There is a refill yourself option.
North Westy sells an adapter to hookup to a Westy stove.
http://north-westy.com/north-westy-parts/lp-elimination-kit |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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Thanks guys... I agree the best is a real Westy tank, but I don't think I will be going for that... Mark got it right - I might not even have the van insured when the tank needs refilling.
Believe it or not I might even stick with this beautifully simple little 1,6NA for the long haul.... so I would love a spare tranny. Where are you Mark?
….so weight is a major consideration. Just carrying 2 or 3 1lb cans would be cool >>> but I will design my cabinets for hold the 20lb can just in case we go for long trips, and also to have in there for "cabin mode". _________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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sphet Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2016 Posts: 345 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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If Mark is too far for you, I did see an diesel transmission on vancouver craigslist:
https://vancouver.craigslist.org/pml/pts/d/maple-ridge-vanagon-4-speed-diesel/6951266046.html
Listed as 1991 doka 4speed diesel ALD code. I don't know if this matches the 1.6na or the TD with respect to gearing.
I do see them come up sometimes locally.
I have thought about grabbing a spare but storage is an issue.
S _________________ 1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee |
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epowell Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015 Posts: 4733 Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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Some more info on the PROPANE CANISTERS.
I called the specialty store and they explained to me that it is considered unsafe to run HIGH PRESSURE propane lines INSIDE the van. They said that all of the 1 LB cans are HIGH PRESSURE and therefore not safe to use inside the van.
The point here is that the danger comes between the canister and the stove because the stove itself, which is designed to run off the 1 LB cans, has a pressure regulator (reducer) built into the stove - and on the cheaper stoves it is not possible (or easy) to bypass this regulator, therefore if you put a pressure regulator on the canister, then the pressure would get reduced twice - at the canister and also in the stove = too low pressure.
So the guys at the propane store are also stumped because this stove https://www.amazon.ca/Flame-King-YSNHT600-Burner-C...EZ5696CM3H is advertised as n RV stove suitable for INSIDE use.
They said they'd call me back after contacting the manufacturer.
_________________ www.edwardpowell.com |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10248 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA |
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We use the 1 lb tossable canisters in the summer as we're just cooking on a Coleman stove, not using the Big Buddy heater (It internally holds 2 1 lb tanks) that time of year. I also have a 12 foot hose and adapter and a larger RV-size tank that I will bring if its a winter trip, or if we are sitting in one place for days at a time. This allows some flexibility so I can run the heater for extended periods with it the tank outside and the hose running in the window.
Having both lets me leave the big tank at home for a mixed trip where we are exploring to a new destination each day, or for most summer trips.
I have still not found a satisfactory way to mount the big tank on the outside of the vehicle underway. We never sleep with it inside, and underway it is secured to the seat frame.
The adapter and hose I got at Cabela's. You have to know whether you need one with a pressure regulator in it or not, and you should test the setup at home so you know how it works and such. For instance, the hose hisses a while after you disconnect, which is normal and I knew from driveway testing. But out in the woods if you hear that for the first time, it may be disconcerting and cause you to doubt your system. It's just the long rubber hose decompressing after you disconnect something.
I agree the 1 lb canisters are pretty poor resource use and if I were living in the van for extended periods, I'd get more serious about the larger canister. As it is, we use about 2 canisters a summer, including non Vanagon camping and the flexibility is nice. _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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