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sciroccojim
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2008
Posts: 259
Location: NJ
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 Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| I think you guys are underestimating the amount of fuel (not gas) available once a car gets thats involved in a fire. The extra amount of 10 gallons of gas isn't that important, its already totaled very early on. |
Understood/agreed, but the different between gasoline and other flammables is that gas will ignite (over and over again) from a single spark. To me, that's the difficult part about putting out a car fair. Remove the gas and it's certainly easier to put out and less likely to spectacularly reignite.
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jwallis
Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2012
Posts: 569
Location: Austin
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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The xintex seems only effective against sealed compartments, unlike the engine bay on a van. It would probably put it out, but dripping gas and hot components might reignite.
I put this $10 cutoff on my negative terminal and it works great, available at your FLAPS, just barely fits, I think I may have cut down the post part of this thing, but not sure it was totally necessary. My van is my daily driver, but I disconnect any time I don't drive for more than a week.
Seems like maybe even that plastic wire protector kind of stuff you put on wires, so if fuel leaked, you'd smell it a couple days or minutes before it dripped. I realize gas vapor is very highly flammable, so maybe that wouldn't be of much help, but I did have a slow drip from a fuel rail connection once that I smelled and fixed immediately with no problem.
Opening the top seems like a bad idea (more air). My plan had always been to grab a towel (or pull off my shirt) and open the license plate hatch and shoot the extinguisher through there - seems more likely to cut off oxygen, and coming from the top down seems like a better angle of attack, maybe the powder will come to rest on the surfaces.
Just saw this and will be getting 1 or 2 for the van
https://youtu.be/4JV-R1H0E_w
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Last edited by jwallis on Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nemobuscaptain
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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| Paulbeard wrote: |
say more on this…obvs gas is involved but I have a lingering suspicion that VW's…"economical"…approach to wiring plays a role. So short of rewiring the whole thing, how to ensure that a spark doesn't become a tower of flame? Seems like a battery shut off is one of the better ideas in this thread . |
"Economical approach to wiring" for sure. the sheer number and length of unfused wiring it up vanagon is mind-numbing. some of the excuses I hear our things like you don't want the engine stalling because the fuel injection wire goes dead after popping a fuse or you don't want your parking lights to go out. that being said every other vehicle has fuses on these systems.
I've been to or fought a lot of car fires in my day, as I used to be a firefighter and medic, and I haven't heard of a single other vehicle doing this "starter shorts out and drives itself down the road while on fire" thing.
as for climbing under a vehicle on fire and trying to put a clamp on the fuel hose or I guess both fuel hoses, I will tell you that it better be a damn small fire. Anything of any size and you won't be able to walk within 20 feet of the car. They burn HOT, even if you are wearing firefighter turnout gear. You damn sure don't want to be underneath the saying when the fuel tank pops and dumps all the remainder of the fuel.
A second thought is you can sometimes help by firing the extinguisher down the vents. of course that's going to be the chimney and there will be hot gas is coming out. not much fun even with your protective gear on. we also used to use a tool I think they call the pike pole too quickly lever up a corner or punch a hole in the hood and spray foam in the engine compartment. these of course aren't viable tactics for an unequipped person.
Im not sure how much turning off the fuel pump helps. Once the fuel hoses burn, gravity will feed fuel to the fire event after the system is no longer pressurized
Finally, because I have ADD, leaving that nest's sound recording on is probably an illegal interception and recording of oral communications, a wiretap act violation. You can record almost anything when you are personally present or when one of the participants consents. However you cantlnot just leave a sound recording device and record all communications without people knowing and consenting (implied or not). I don't think all these cameras do a very good job of explaining the legal limitations.
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Last edited by nemobuscaptain on Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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| Quote: |
| ask for climbing under a vehicle on fire and trying to put a clamp on the fuel hose or I guess both fuel hoses, I will tell you that it better be a damn small fire. Anything of any size and you won't be able to walk within 20 feet of the car. They burn HOT, even if you are wearing firefighter turnout gear. You damn sure don't want to be underneath the saying when the fuel tank pops and dumps all the remainder of the fuel. |
Thanks, Nemo.
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greebly
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2009
Posts: 966
Location: Here and now
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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| ?Waldo? wrote: |
| Just one of the other reasons I prefer diesels. |
I know of someone that installed a TDI years ago, perhaps just after John Sullivan, maybe before. His daughter went out to crank the van and the starter bushing stuck. Common issue with mileage on a TDI. Vanagon burst into flames and was a complete loss. Diesels are not immune.Diesel may have a higher flash point but diesel fuel will still burn |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6833
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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| nemobuscaptain wrote: |
Im not sure how much turning off the fuel pump helps. Once the fuel hoses burn, gravity will feed fuel to the fire event after the system is no longer pressurized. |
For a 2wd Vanagon turning off the pump will cut off the fuel feeding the fire as it is pumping up to the engine.
The Syncro Fuel tank is going to flow fuel, but I'm not sure of the pump's internals if it will allow fuel to flow freely. Shutting off the power behind the flow will help slow the flow feeding the fire...but once the flames are there any small amount of fuel is going to feed it. I'd still go for turning the pump off.
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nemobuscaptain
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KingAir42
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2002
Posts: 500
Location: Bakersfield
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| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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Is that the same old guy stunt pilot bob Hoover ? |
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tjet 
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
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| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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The idea is to install the relay near the battery. It would only energize the starter cable when you start the engine. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:08 am Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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| Dazegone54 wrote: |
Is that the same old guy stunt pilot bob Hoover ? |
The one who invented vacuums
| Quote: |
| I've been to or fought a lot of car fires in my day, as I used to be a firefighter and medic, and I haven't heard of a single other vehicle doing this "starter shorts out and drives itself down the road while on fire" thing. |
96% of cars on road today are automatics In the US, too.
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DuncanS
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2013
Posts: 4583
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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I whole heartily agree with tjet. Put a starter relay at the battery so there are no unfused and live wires when the ignition and relay are not energized. It could also have a secondary switch hidden under the dash, but easily reachable by the driver which would disable the solenoid even with the ignition on. This could be an anti theft device.
Have been thinking about this for a while. I would interrupt the positive battery lead, but keep a small fused line going forward for ignition switch, the radio memory and my power windows which I often put up or down while parked.
All this would eliminate the potential reignition of fuel by an electrical problem at the engine as well as killing the fuel pump with its ability to continue to feed a fire. Putting in a Blazecut or other automatic suppression system without such a solenoid is only a partial solution. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Wow. 30 minute Vanagon fire video... |
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Why do people spend $100s on fire extinguishers and relays when the right fuel line and oetiker clamps cost under $50?
Is it some sort of badge of honor to not maintain your vehicle and then go fight a fire that can be prevented?
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