Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

Hey guys, I've started doing this on a couple of other forums, as I do all different kinds of tech for Rebel Wire. I thought it might be a good idea to start a Rebel Wire questions thread and put some diagrams, wiring tech, pictures, etc on here to help out. I've used the wealth of knowledge on this forum many times: members knowledge, wiring diagrams, and other things to build up my bag of tricks and maybe I can help some people out, plus having a working knowledge of the Rebel Wire kits from building them and doing tech everyday. So if anyone has any questions or needs anything just let me know. I can also be reached here through PM, or at the shop, [email protected] , 423-263-5399. I'll start this off a photo of a VW wiring job that I cleaned up. I didn't take enough pics when I was fixing it, but you can get the idea of what I was up against.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm not so much a forum/social media guy, but I'm usually pretty good with troubleshooting and always willing to help out. So if you guys will bear with me I think we can all help each other out and get some of this stuff rewired!
_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Q-Dog
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 7810
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
Q-Dog is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

Does Rebel make stock VW replacement harnesses in stock colors?
_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

Q-Dog wrote:
Does Rebel make stock VW replacement harnesses in stock colors?


No, just the aftermarket setup. We don't build anything make or model specific. I had a new stock harness one time and we thought about building one, but when you get into it, it's mostly a main loom and a bunch of little pieces of wire with spade terminals on it, and I think that thing was like $400 (I took it on trade with some parts). It's really just too time consuming to build stock replacement stuff, especially when someone has a stock car, but it's actually modified a little. We get into that a lot, it's stock, but has a different alternator, aftermarket gauges, a mixture of switches in the dash... Smile It's all fun though
_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

I'm going to try to work on this some, I'm always between building kits and doing tech, but I want to get some tech on here for the Rebel Wire kits in case it may help someone out. So where to start? Maybe thinking of it as a new installation? When you start out with your Rebel Wire harness, you need to get the panel mounted and start routing your wires. I know it's easier to sit back and think about it Think but let's face it, it never jumps out of the box and starts installing itself. So you find somewhere you like and mount the fuse panel. The shortest lengths of wire are the Ignition switch, headlight switch, turn signal switch, and dimmer switch. These lengths are about 32'' long from the panel. So you've got some room there to move it around if needed.

Some of you may have noticed I'm not mentioning what we're working on here (bug, bus, ghia, thing...) mainly because it doesn't really matter that much, as long as you got a harness long enough to reach the front and rear of whatever you're working on Shocked shocking right? I may be wrong, but I work on and tech support a lot of different makes and models, and I just look at them as a combination of different switches and systems working together. So after you get you panel mounted and wire bundles going to their general locations, that's all you're really doing, is wiring a light bulb, or switch, gauge, whatever it is you're working on.

Starting to rewire and make connections: You could really start anywhere, but I would recommend starting in the front or rear, the front would be easier, less up there, mostly light bulb sockets. That get's some progress and gains some confidence. So if you're wiring your headlight bulbs, you're only dealing with a high beam, low beam and ground wires. Something like this

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


From the back of the connector where your wires plug in: the ground is on the left, high beam on the right, and low beam is top center. Wire both bulbs and call them done.

Then you could move on to your turn signals. If you've got single filament bulbs, like an 1156, they can only do one thing. Turn or running lights, to do both, you'd need a dual filament, like an 1157, with the correct 1157 socket. To wire an 1157 bulb socket I usually just bench test my sockets to see which is the bright filament (turn signal wire) and which is the dim filament (park/tail running lights). Like this: I normally use my Power Probe to do this, but a battery will do the same thing. Just ground it and power the 2 wires up one at a time. An 1157 socket with only 2 wires means it grounds by the bulb socket and body mounting.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

So you've wired your headlights and turn signals, and fuel sender most times...which is just the single pink fuel gauge wire to the sender (make sure your sender is grounded) because that's what is moving the needle on the gauge, the amount of ground provided by the sending unit inside the tank. Normally you've got the horn mounted somewhere up in the front. The Rebel Wire kit already has a horn relay wired in and all you need to connect to the horn in the front is the green wire labeled "horn" and ground the horn. Your horn may be 2 terminal and need a ground wire, or a single terminal that self grounds by mounting to the metal body, for fiberglass, run an additional ground.

You could go to the rear and wire the lights and engine. We're still dealing with bulb sockets just like in the front, but if you're mixing and changing around bulb setups, that gets into things like your bulbs needed to match your turn signal setup. I'll stop there for today and pick it up a little later, unless someone has a question and you guys can always email us at [email protected]
_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ashman40
Samba Member


Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 13987
Location: North Florida, USA
ashman40 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

I think it is great you are try to share your knowledge/experience with the forum. Keep it going.

I'm surprised I didn't notice your thread when you first started it.

If you don't mind, I have three questions:
    1) You mentioned the horn wire from the fuse box is just a switched 12v power source to the horn. If your horn has a ground terminal you need a short length of wire from that terminal to a good ground near or on the horn.
    I'm guessing there is another wire from the fuse box that runs to the horn button. Is this horn button wire expecting a 12v+ signal to sound the horn, or a ground? Can it be swapped?

    2) I believe the Rebel wiring fuse box has an flasher relay already installed? Is this a common generic 2-prong flasher relay or something more specific? Does it support LED bulbs for the corner turn signal lamps? Does the fuse box have a L and R output for the turn dash indicator lamps? How do you get it to work w/ the single VW turn indicator lamp? Diodes?
    (Sorry, that's a bunch of related questions)

    3) Where can you download the wiring diagram for the Rebel wiring harness?

_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
I think it is great you are try to share your knowledge/experience with the forum. Keep it going.

I'm surprised I didn't notice your thread when you first started it.

If you don't mind, I have three questions:
    1) You mentioned the horn wire from the fuse box is just a switched 12v power source to the horn. If your horn has a ground terminal you need a short length of wire from that terminal to a good ground near or on the horn.
    I'm guessing there is another wire from the fuse box that runs to the horn button. Is this horn button wire expecting a 12v+ signal to sound the horn, or a ground? Can it be swapped?

    2) I believe the Rebel wiring fuse box has an flasher relay already installed? Is this a common generic 2-prong flasher relay or something more specific? Does it support LED bulbs for the corner turn signal lamps? Does the fuse box have a L and R output for the turn dash indicator lamps? How do you get it to work w/ the single VW turn indicator lamp? Diodes?
    (Sorry, that's a bunch of related questions)

    3) Where can you download the wiring diagram for the Rebel wiring harness?


I've seen some of your responses before on tech questions, very informative and knowledgeable information. You'll probably blow me out of the water on tech,haha. To answer your questions:

1) There's a horn relay on the panel, wired as a keyed hot (because some of the VW columns ground out the steering shaft when you take out the key). So the relay is powered and hot triggered off the panel, and is just waiting on the ground trigger from the horn button. We have a black horn switch wire in the harness coming off of the relay to go to the column bearing wire, or tube terminal, depending on the column. So when you ground the horn switch wire, it triggers the relay, and sends power out to blow the horn. You could switch it, but not easily, well...depending on your wiring experience. It's already wired for a ground trigger and fed off the panel.

2) The turn signal flasher being used is the old thermal style 3 pin flasher (X power, L load, and P pilot). If you want to use all LED bulbs you can swap it for an EF33RL LED version of the flasher. Due to the different hazard switches and relays used, we only set up the harness for turn signals, and put in a constant hot hazard wire to go to terminal 30 of the hazard switch (later setups) or terminal 30 of the relay (older ground triggered setups). To wire in hazards you can either use your old flasher and make a small harness to tie into the turn signal wiring and switch, or wire in another style flasher just for hazards. There's a lot of different ways to do it, that could probably be it's own write up! Basically when you're done the Left turns are tied together, the Right turns are tied together, and your load wires (49a) are tied together, on most setups. So the flasher has a P pilot terminal if you're using an add on turn signal switch, or a grounded indicator bulb. If you're running the stock single indicator you can just come off of our purple flasher wire (stock black/green/white 49a) and jump it up to the indicator bulb. No diodes needed. I think the American Autowire kits used 2 wires and diodes. I just come off the load wire like the stock setup did. The indicator bulb will flash and alternate with the turn signals like stock. If you ever wanted to run 2 indicators, you could just splice in to the left front and right front turn wires, had guys do that before with custom dash setups. Here's a simple hazard wiring diagram that I made and sent to someone. I use to just edit the flasher part for whatever flasher they had, as long as the power and load terminals are kept straight it still works.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


3) I'll actually try to post it here if anyone needs it. I do tech on the kits (as well as Ford, Chevy, Mopar...) all the time and have other diagrams I've made up. What I've found is there's many different ways to accomplish the same results, depending on what individual parts you might have and how you want them to operate. I still refer to the wiring diagrams here on the Samba a lot and try to get others to use them as well. This forum has been a great help to me, and I try to pass it along to help others out.

Hope that answered your questions and I didn't ramble too much
_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

Rebel Wire Universal VW Wiring Kit Instructions. Installation can and may vary based on your build and parts being used.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ashman40
Samba Member


Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 13987
Location: North Florida, USA
ashman40 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

That's some good info. Thanks!

Two final questions...
    1) Is there a diagram of the fuse box and which fuse supports which circuit/wire color? Are the wires individually labeled?

    2) How easy/difficult is it to add a new circuit? Are there any spare fuses or spare spots for additional fuses/connections? Think radio and/or fog lamps.


Thank you for your efforts! Those diagrams are great. Maybe a little advanced for someone not familiar with wiring, but because it separates things into subsystems I think it allows you to focus on one system at a time. Nice!
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
That's some good info. Thanks!

Two final questions...
    1) Is there a diagram of the fuse box and which fuse supports which circuit/wire color? Are the wires individually labeled?

    2) How easy/difficult is it to add a new circuit? Are there any spare fuses or spare spots for additional fuses/connections? Think radio and/or fog lamps.


Thank you for your efforts! Those diagrams are great. Maybe a little advanced for someone not familiar with wiring, but because it separates things into subsystems I think it allows you to focus on one system at a time. Nice!


1) There's a sticky backed decal that shows which fuse is for which circuit.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The wires are labeled, printed every six inches the full length of the wire. Also the wires are already sorted into switch bundles, front and rear sections.
This is the front section showing the labeling:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So if you were wiring the headlight switch you'd have a bundle of wires that would be labeled: headlight switch power, park lights, dash lights, tail lights, dimmer power... and you'd wire whatever switch you have according to it's function. Normally headlight switch power to 30, park and tail lights to 57 or 58, dash lights to 58b, dimmer power to 56.

2) In the basic kit there are already wires for radio (keyed and constant hots), Lights, signals, gauges, brake lights, horn, wiper power, and an Ac/heat power wire, like for a fresh air fan, or that gives you an extra 14ga keyed hot. In the deluxe version of the kit there are all of the above circuits, plus trunk/dome lights (constant hots) and 2 extra 14ga keyed hot accessory wires for later. Of course it basically comes down to they are mostly keyed and constant hots, and could be used for other things besides what they're labeled for. You could add in relays for higher loads and use a hot wire off the panel to trigger a relay. Just depends on what you were doing.
_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

I should also mention, because on some harnesses I've seen, they're in pieces and you have to build it yourself and route your wires. The Rebel Wire kits are already routed and bundled for a standard application. So for instance your front park light wires already come out of the headlight switch bundle and run into the front wiring bundle, then split for left and right front parks lights.

Same for the rear tail light wires...one end is in the headlight switch bundle, the other splits in the rear and is bundled with the rear turn and brake light wires.

The coil and start wires would be routed from the ignition switch bundle...16ft long...back to the rear section with the rest of the engine wiring (oil pressure, oil temp, tach, alternator exciter). Turn signal switch wires run from the turn signal switch bundle out to the front and rear into different sections.

These are universal kits, but setup for a VW pan and rear engine. Separate brake and turn wires (which can be easily changed depending on your column). In case you wanted to know if the wires were long enough, the rear engine wires are 16ft long. From ignition switch to engine, gauges to engine. The rear turn, brake, and tail light wires are 18-20ft long from switch to bulbs. Front brake switch bundle is extra long to get down to the brake switches. These are the lengths in the Bug kits, Bus kits are longer, rail buggy kits are shorter.

Here's another picture of the Deluxe VW kit, with extra accessory wires. The extras are bundled into the front and rear sections.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So you'd just mount the fuse panel, route your wires to the front and rear, then pick a place to start (front, rear, dash). If you were wiring the ignition switch: you'll have the bundle of wires in the harness labeled (Ignition Switch Power, Ignition Switch Ignition, Ignition Switch Accessory, Coil, and Start). If you were wiring a stock switch with 3 wires, you'd connect the ignition switch power wire to the stock red wire on terminal 30 (that's power into the switch), the purple start wire to the red/black on terminal 50 (50 is hot in crank position), and you'd need to connect all 3, orange ignition, brown accessory, and pink coil to the stock black wire on terminal 15. Terminal 15 is your keyed hot coming off of the switch. It's hot in run and start positions. So your feeding the keyed fuses on the panel, and the coil +. If you're adding a lot of accessories and are worried about the draw on your ignition switch, you could change out the switch, or relay it, letting the relay carry the load of the accessories, and just using the stock black wire on the switch to trigger the relay. In most cases, you're still operating the same amount of accessories, we're just using heavier gauge wires than stock and dividing up the circuits more. Either way, stock switch or aftermarket, you just connect the wires to the switch going by their labels, and the operation of your switch.
_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

Grounds! I know this is at a random point, but I end up doing a lot of tech on bad grounds. Most guys will look at the ground wire they've made or where a socket is mounted in the body and go,"I know the ground is good, that's not the problem". Well, how do you really know? You could use a meter and check for continuity to the battery ground, or my handy Power Probe tells me I've got a good ground, but you can also use a simple test light. I have people do this a lot and figured I'd post it here.

So if you have something going on that just doesn't make sense: like you blow the horn and an indicator bulb lights up, or you pull on your lights, and one side is brighter than the other (provided your powering the same filament of the bulb), you turn on the hazards and 3 out of the 4 bulbs blink... you can check that ground more than just visually. A simple test light will work. If you turn on the suspect circuit, power up the bulb that's not working,whatever it is. Take your test light and ground it to the battery ground (because that's the best ground you've got) and take the probe end of the test light and probe the suspect ground wire, bulb housing, spot on body, engine block, whatever it is.. and if the ground is bad, or not as good as the battery ground, the test light will light up. The reason is that the power will flow through your test light trying to get to the good battery ground you're connected to. You may need a long piece of wire to get your test light grounded to the battery, that's fine. Then you can move the test light around probing for bad grounds (with circuits powered up)


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

Finding a short without going through a handful of fuses: So this is another trick I'll use. It again uses a light bulb as a visual aid to find a short to ground. If you keep blowing fuses and you don't know what the problem is, or if you have a parasitic draw that's draining your battery (maybe for another time) you can take out the fuse that keeps blowing, and replace it with a simple 2 wire bulb. Doesn't need to be fancy


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So you take out the blown fuse, and replace it with the 2 wire bulb. Turn your power back on, since there's power on one side of the bulb, and the other is shorted to ground, the bulb will light up.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You know which fuse is blowing so you know the general areas to look. Say it blows when you pull on the headlight switch. Ok, does it blow when you pull it out for running lights, or only when you pull it out all the way for headlights? Whatever it is, go to that area and start checking them. Pull bulbs out of sockets, unplug wires if you can one at a time... whenever you find the problem, and disconnect it, the bulb will go out telling you that you've disconnected the short to ground.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Finding shorts in lighting can be tricky. A bulb plugged into a socket, even though it's fine, will light up your test bulb, because it does have a path to ground through the bulb filaments. So if you remove the bulb from the socket first, you can tell if it's in the socket itself or the wiring. It still takes some trail and error to learn it, but this can be a useful trick.
_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ashman40
Samba Member


Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 13987
Location: North Florida, USA
ashman40 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

In general, a fuse box is considered the source of power for most circuits with the switches and devices being powered (typically) are "downstream" from the fuse box. There are a few exceptions even with the stock VW fuse box, but this is a generally understood assumption with fuse boxes.

You mentioned above that in the Rebel fuse box the horn circuit makes use of the relay mounted to the fuse box. Then there is a switched ground INPUT coming from the horn button along with a 12v+ powered OUTPUT which runs to the horn itself. So the horn circuit runs THRU the fuse box. The horn button being on the low current side of the relay and the horn is on the high current side. This makes good sense and reduces the need for long wire runs.

Initially I thought many circuits for this harness were like the horn and passed thru the fuse box with control circuits entering into the fuse box and powered outputs going out the other side. But your pics above seem to show that switches are powered from the fuse box and wires from the turn signal, headlight and wiper switches run directly to the devices they control w/o going thru the fuse box.


Are there any other circuits (other than the horn) that pass-thru the fuse box?
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
In general, a fuse box is considered the source of power for most circuits with the switches and devices being powered (typically) are "downstream" from the fuse box. There are a few exceptions even with the stock VW fuse box, but this is a generally understood assumption with fuse boxes.

You mentioned above that in the Rebel fuse box the horn circuit makes use of the relay mounted to the fuse box. Then there is a switched ground INPUT coming from the horn button along with a 12v+ powered OUTPUT which runs to the horn itself. So the horn circuit runs THRU the fuse box. The horn button being on the low current side of the relay and the horn is on the high current side. This makes good sense and reduces the need for long wire runs.

Initially I thought many circuits for this harness were like the horn and passed thru the fuse box with control circuits entering into the fuse box and powered outputs going out the other side. But your pics above seem to show that switches are powered from the fuse box and wires from the turn signal, headlight and wiper switches run directly to the devices they control w/o going thru the fuse box.


Are there any other circuits (other than the horn) that pass-thru the fuse box?


The horn relay setup still basically routes the same way, from fuse panel to relay, relay to horn, it's just being controlled by the horn button to close the contacts on the relay. The turn signal flasher would be the same way, from fuse panel to flasher, flasher to turn signal switch, turn signal switch to bulbs. we've just mounted them to the panel to shorten the run from the panel to the horn relay and flasher and make it more of a contained panel. Mount it and go.

I've mostly seen it on German diagrams (Porsche especially) where they would say feed the headlight switch, then come off of the switch with dash lights, run the dash light wire back through the fuse panel with a smaller fuse, or come off the dimmer switch and run it through separate high and low beam fuses. Ours would be more like this: Power comes from the battery to ignition switch, ignition switch to panel, panel to switches, switches to whatever they operate. The switches usually have a main power in, then they distribute the power out to whatever they control based on the switch's operation. Most American cars are wired this way, with a few exceptions.
_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

Testing your turn signal switch and wiring:

First thing, if you think you'll be testing for a while and have the coil wired already, unhook the coil while you have your key on. You don't want the coil hot for extended periods of time without the engine running.

Here's an easy trick I use a lot. Let's say you wire everything up on your car and you use the turn signal switch and nothing happens. Where do you start? On the Rebel Wire kit, I would check the fuse, sometimes you may have had a short or your flasher wire touched metal and blown the fuse. If the fuse is good, where do you go next? You can put a test light on your flasher wire, but the flasher needs to have a load drawn on it to pull power through, and your test light may only give you a faint glow, making you think it's a voltage issue, bad ground, etc. Where you actually want to start checking for power would be at the X (power) side of the flasher. Unplug the flasher, underneath it's stamped X,L, and P. The X terminal is the power into the flasher, L is the load side out to the turn signal switch, and P is the pilot terminal for a grounded style indicator bulb. We just need X and L for now. So you unplug the flasher and check for power at the X terminal.

If you don't have 12v there, most likely you blew a fuse and it just didn't look blown, or it carried enough continuity to show good, but won't carry a load.

If you have 12v on the X terminal (49 on stock flashers) you can put in a short jumper wire and jump from X to L, L is (49A on stock flashers). With that jumper wire in place you're sending the 12v to your turn signal switch so you can move on and test the switch. Here's a picture of the Rebel Wire panel with the flasher out and jumper wire in it's place:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So now you're sending a keyed 12v into the turn signal switch. The Rebel Wire purple "turn signal flasher" wire should be connected to the stock black/green/white wire on your stock turn signal switch. That's how power is getting into your switch.

So with the switch turned off, your black/white (left turn) and black/green (right turn) wires should be dead. If you turn the switch to the right, the black/green wire should show battery voltage. If you turn the switch to the left, the black/white wire should show battery voltage. These right and left turn wires stock would run out to your bulbs front and rear. In the Rebel Kit, they are shortened and connected to the yellow and blue left turn wires, and dark blue and green right turn wires. Then they still run straight out to your front and rear bulbs.

So if you operate the switch and have power coming back out, and the connections are good into the new Rebel wires, then you can move on and test for power at your sockets. If you have power out at your sockets and the grounds are good, your bulbs should light up solid, not flash, because we've unplugged the flasher. If you get solid power out at the bulbs, you should be able to remove the jumper wire and plug the flasher back in and everything should blink like normal. Remember if you changed out to LED's you'll need an LED flasher, not just an electronic, but an LED flasher like an EF33RL with a ground pigtail on the flasher.
_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

I just made a short video of how to bench test your bulb sockets and how to tell between the turn signal and park/running light wire on 1157 bulb sockets. Thought I'd post a link here. There's pictures earlier in the thread using a 9v battery, this is using my Power Probe. The dim filament would be the running light, and the bright filament is your turn signal wire. On 1156 single filament bulbs, they can do one or the other, or backup...brake light...just one function, not both. One of these sockets is self grounding, the other has a 3rd wire for a ground. I'm not trying to direct anyone to our Facebook page, I'm just better with old car tech than posting Confused

https://www.facebook.com/rebel.wire/videos/2405362456153260/
_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jeremy1984
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Etowah,TN
Jeremy1984 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

I had a customer building a Manx buggy and needed some dimensions on the fuse panel. Thought I'd post them here if anyone needed them. This is the Bug universal panel, the rail buggy kit would be one row of fuses and 1 inch shorter, the Deluxe Bug panel would add another row of fuses and 1 inch longer.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Rebel Wire Representative
[email protected]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MACJELLY58
Samba Member


Joined: September 26, 2014
Posts: 220
Location: HONOLULU, HAWAII
MACJELLY58 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

Thank you very much for all the information. I'm not quite there yet, but getting to the point of thinking about what I was gonna do about my wiring situation. The late model Supers are outta luck with the front after-market harnesses and I wanted to upgrade anyway. I'm not very knowledgeable beyond BASIC electrical trouble shooting and was EXTREMELY intimidated with the idea of tackling the rewiring of my project. Your thread has given me some hope and my anxiety level has decreased by 80%. Again, many thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Charlo
Samba Member


Joined: March 19, 2015
Posts: 50
Location: Southwest Oregon
Charlo is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebel Wire Questions and Pictures Reply with quote

Hi All,
I wish to jump in here, and to voice my praise for Jeremys assistance as well.
I've been "Buggin" him since early June with questions regarding the rewiring my '69 'Bug' with a Deluxe Rebel kit.
I've been working on a total body-off restoration (minus paint), and figured "no time like the present" to get rid of the rats nest of original wiring (which I had not originally intented to do. Would have seemed pointless not to!)
Jeremy is very knowledgable, very willing to assist, and VERY patient. Some areas of the rewiring just would "not sink in" with my limited knowledge.
Jeremy was always willing to restate the solution (with words and diagrams) in a different fashion or order, so that I would eventually understand the thought process. Would not have been possible w/o him!
What I have left to do now is complete my final connections once I drop the body back on the pan (@ lights and engine), tie up loose ends.
Getting excited about "firing her up soon" very soon now!
Thanks Jeremy, you're a godsend!
_________________
1969 Type 1171 Sunroof Sedan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB