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westina Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2017 Posts: 368 Location: Beacon/NY
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:54 pm Post subject: Cranking problem |
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Hi. 84 full camper 1.9 stock wbx manual here. For a while I would turn the ignition , starter would click but it wouldn’t start. This would happen let’s say once week. So I figured the starter is dying which looked old and tired anyway. Bought a remanufactured starter from eBay it’s Bosch. I know the eBay thing may not be the smart move but bought 3-4 starter from different vendors never had problem. Anyway now it doesn’t start very often. It’s my daily vehicle and makes things very hard. Imagine you pump some gas and almost get a tow back home. I have on samba before that rocking the van back n forth sometimes works and it worked for me today. Since the problem snowballed after the starter replacement should I ignore the ignition switch possibility? I ai will look into how to jumper the starter too. Would a brand new bosh unit fix this situation? Thanks
Last edited by westina on Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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Look at he battery voltage in the morning, and watch it while you crank. Its highly likely you have switch, wiring, and starter issues all together.
(Its highly likely......)
An eBay starter is a complete unknown, so bringing more unknowns into a problem isn't really too good an idea. You are much better off having your OG starter rebuilt by a local electrical shop with a good reputation from the vintage car people in your area - find them and ask. The people who know this stuff aren't on fora or Facebook yet.
Bosch reman used to be good, now they are crap. The rebuild factory is in the Developing world, and the QC is bad - lots of them fail out of box.
While the edit window is still open, change your title to CRANKING PROBLEM
Cranking problem - no whir whir whir on key turn
Starting problem - engine cranks over but won't fire up. _________________ .ssS! |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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westina Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2017 Posts: 368 Location: Beacon/NY
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Cranking iproblem |
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Yes it clicks and nothing else. Not turning or anything. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17009 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Cranking iproblem |
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Did you change in the included starter bushing? The ignition switch is easily bypassed, but not going to document it for the lazy meth heads in the PNW on the internet. It should be documented here somewhere. This is a common question/problem. I’ve not had problems with Bosch remans from reliable vendors so far. _________________ ☮️ |
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Chestercopperpot Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2017 Posts: 114 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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Is this random or when warm or cold only? Grounds... |
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westina Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2017 Posts: 368 Location: Beacon/NY
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Cranking iproblem |
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MarkWard wrote: |
Did you change in the included starter bushing? The ignition switch is easily bypassed, but not going to document it for the lazy meth heads in the PNW on the internet. It should be documented here somewhere. This is a common question/problem. I’ve not had problems with Bosch remans from reliable vendors so far. |
My intention was to replace the bushing since new unit came with the bushing but the old bushing was reall stuck in that groove. I though ohh well its just a bushing and installed the new unit. wire brushed the terminals, smeared dab of dialectric grease...
The ignition switch stuff is on youtube. I can replace it no problem. But since i put a new starter and the problem skyrocketed, i wonder if it has anything to do with the ignition. |
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westina Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2017 Posts: 368 Location: Beacon/NY
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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Chestercopperpot wrote: |
Is this random or when warm or cold only? Grounds... |
I am still observing but it looks like a random event. I have been dealing with that since morning. |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6375 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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May be worth a look at the cable attaching to the starter. If cracked, your issue can be the result.
If it worsens to not even clicking, Boom, the likely culprit. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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westina Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2017 Posts: 368 Location: Beacon/NY
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Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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Now i am thinking, that little bushing that i skipped to replace may be the source. I have checked to see what would be a decent approach to remove the old one. They slightly hammer a tap to get a grip and pull it out. I think that's where i should start. Tomorrow...i'll report back. Thanks. |
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the joker Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006 Posts: 1287
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Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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you may want to consider the gowesty redesigned unit
BTDT with the bosch junk, now turn the key, and go. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17009 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:14 am Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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My suggestion was to bypass the ignition switch temporarily and see if the problem persists before you go to the trouble to replace it.
I have an old tap I have used for 40 years to remove the bushing. I think it’s 1/2”. You run the tap in to the bushing and it walks the bushing out nice and neat. I use a long 10 mm bolt with a nut to drive the new bushing in.
My preference is always to try and determine a cause vs throwing parts at it. Ignition switch is cheap and they do go bad. Why not be sure before you pull the column apart? Good luck. _________________ ☮️ |
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outcaststudios Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015 Posts: 1728 Location: Maine
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Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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classic bad ground scenario. btdt. get under and clean the trans ground strap, remove it ,get bare metal re attach and cover with dielectric grease _________________ '88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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I like to add a new ground strap from the lower starter bolt to the chassis.
as for starters.
I've bought 2 of these Brand new mfg units from rock auto and they've been swell. $90new
Power select listed as 86-91 but that's cause it has the longer stud on the solenoid, it'll fit/work fine on a 76-91 manual bus/van
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/power+select,17066N,starter+motor,4152 _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50255
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Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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FWIW, if you buy a 2.1L starter it will likely be cheaper then the 1.9L starter while producing an extra 0.25HP.
Direct bolt in. |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15129 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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sometimes I've had to clean/scrape the paint off a reman starter to allow enough of the grounding current to get into the transaxle.
fwiw I use a biting lock washer on the lower starter bolt also.
do EVERYTHING you can to get a good current path into and out of the starter to the battery.
once satisfied you can top coat the connections with some dielectric grease or clear spray paint. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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westina Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2017 Posts: 368 Location: Beacon/NY
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Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Cranking problem |
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Thanks guys, sorry i wasn't able to respond. The van cranked fine all day yesterday and so far today. I am sure it would hick up again but at this point i am in wait and see mode, reason being is that i am the middle of non vanagon related projects(sailboat) so i ll get by until no crank happens again. Appreciate the help. When it happens again, i ll put everything aside and go over everything described in above posts. |
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