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NomadStudioBus
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Seneca, SC
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 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:55 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| EverettB wrote: |
I'd go with a 30 PICT-1 but you could also use a 28 PICT-1.
You could be lazy and use an 010 or 019 so you don't have to worry about getting a proper vacuum signal or you could find something that matches. The vacuum advance distributor might drive a little better.
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Thanks Everett, it's getting clearer... the links help. Though I couldn't seem to find a match for this serial number
I have most of a 28 pict carb that came with the bus, but it was detached. Considered rebuilding it, but sounds like a 30 PICT would be optimal.
Guessing the 28 may not power as well?
Also still assuming this is a 1500 - some seemed to think it was possibly 1600. I don't know how to tell the difference. And if it is 1600, I read that I'd need at least a 30 PICT if not a 34 PICT.
I want it to run well and since I can pretty much get whatever at this point I'd rather get the right combo to make it optimal |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:59 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| NomadStudioBus wrote: |
Also still assuming this is a 1500 - some seemed to think it was possibly 1600. I don't know how to tell the difference. And if it is 1600, I read that I'd need at least a 30 PICT if not a 34 PICT. |
Remove a head, measure piston/cylinder size, and the stroke.
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NomadStudioBus
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Seneca, SC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:11 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| crofty wrote: |
| tasb wrote: |
| Distributor wise from 1960 until 1970 The Beetle, Ghia and yes the Bus all used the same distributors. They sometimes had different part numbers but they were physically and performance wise the same distributors. This is also true for Type III from 1961-1967 with one or two exceptions- there's always an exception. |
This is what I found confusing. The TYPES used the same distributors from(june) 1960-1970 but the performance specs of those distributors varied by year. |
I find that confusing too |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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I like the 30 PICT 1 carburetor on 1500 1600 engines. It's reliable and easy to tune. The distributors used with it are good ones, too. As you move into the 34 PICT carburetor the distributors are a bit more finicky.
The BRS 383 distributor was used on Porsche engines clear into 1958.
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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NomadStudioBus
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Seneca, SC
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:26 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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Nice long weekend so I started cleaning the engine and decided to remove, clean and rebuild the fuel pump
after some soaking and scrubbing discovered that it's a BCD Tonino Italian made pump which is apperently a Peirburg clone
Does anyone know if the WW rebuild kit will work on this pump?
All clean and just needs new gaskets
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:57 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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Do not know, but would think so.
As mentioned by glutamodo in the thread below the lower section if fatally flawed can be replaced by Pierburg one.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=318756&highlight=italian+fuel+pump
Buy two rebuild kits and a good used Pierburg core. Rebuild both and keep the Pierburg one in reserve...
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NomadStudioBus
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Seneca, SC
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:56 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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6v to 12v? Replace all together?
So after all this sleuthing, I know I'll need at least a distributor, coil, starter, battery... not to mention new carb and fuel pump rebuild.. if not more, just to see if this engine is still good and runs.
not to mention I have to replace all the wiring...
Would it make sense to just get all those parts as 12v and do the conversion?
What are the pro's and cons of 6v vs.12v? ( I looked at some of the 6v to 12v threads and found little there to be helpful)
or just get a rebuilt turn key?
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:18 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| NomadStudioBus wrote: |
| crofty wrote: |
| tasb wrote: |
| Distributor wise from 1960 until 1970 The Beetle, Ghia and yes the Bus all used the same distributors. They sometimes had different part numbers but they were physically and performance wise the same distributors. This is also true for Type III from 1961-1967 with one or two exceptions- there's always an exception. |
This is what I found confusing. The TYPES used the same distributors from(june) 1960-1970 but the performance specs of those distributors varied by year. |
I find that confusing too |
Not sure how I can make this any clearer:
Bus Distributors:
1950-1953 =VE 4 BRS 383 Bus and Beetle @ 30*
1954-1955= VJ 4 BR 2&3 /Beetle same with added vac adv= VJU 4 BR 2&3 @20* + @10* for vac adv.
1955-1959= VJ 4 BR 8 /Beetle same with added vac adv= VJU 4 BR 8 @20* + @10* for vac adv.
1960= VJ 4 BR 25 Bus only @ 20* /Beetle continued with VJU 4 BR 8
1961 =ZV/PAU 4R2 Also used on Beetle @ 18*
1962-1964 =ZV/PAU 4 R 5 used on Beetle as well, T3= R 6@18*
1965 =111 905 205M, N same as ZV/JU 4 R 3 used on Beetle, T3= 311 D@ 19*
1966-1967= 131 905 205 same as 113 905 205 K used on Beetle and Bus, T3 = 311 E-G @25*
1968= 113 905 205 M used on Beetle too @ 32*, T3= SVDA @
1969-1970= 113 905 205 T used on Beetle too @ 32*, T3= SVDA
I added the advance totals, maybe that will help? @= about, *= degrees When the distributors have the same total advance but different part numbers expect the advance curve to be different. Exceptions ( aren't there always...) 1961-1964 use the same vacuum canister and 1968-70 also use the same vacuum canister = same advance curve.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Last edited by tasb on Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:17 am; edited 5 times in total |
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NomadStudioBus
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Seneca, SC
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:46 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| tasb wrote: |
| NomadStudioBus wrote: |
| crofty wrote: |
| tasb wrote: |
| Distributor wise from 1960 until 1970 The Beetle, Ghia and yes the Bus all used the same distributors. They sometimes had different part numbers but they were physically and performance wise the same distributors. This is also true for Type III from 1961-1967 with one or two exceptions- there's always an exception. |
This is what I found confusing. The TYPES used the same distributors from(june) 1960-1970 but the performance specs of those distributors varied by year. |
I find that confusing too |
Not sure how I can make this any clearer:
Bus Distributors:
1950-1953 =VE 4 BRS 383 Bus and Beetle
1954-1955= VJ 4 BR 2&3 /Beetle same with added vac adv= VJU 4 BR 2&3 @20* + @10* for vac adv.
1955-1959= VJ 4 BR 8 /Beetle same with added vac adv= VJU 4 BR 8 @20* + @10* for vac adv.
1960= VJ 4 BR 25 Bus only /Beetle continued with VJU 4 BR 8
1961 =ZV/PAU 4R2 Also used on Beetle @ 18*
1962-1964 =ZV/PAU 4 R 5 used on Beetle as well @18*
1965 =111 905 205 N same as ZV/JU 4 R 3 used on Beetle @ 19*
1966-1967= 131 905 205 same as 113 905 205 K used on Beetle and Bus @25*
1968= 113 905 205 M used on Beetle too @ 32*
1969-1970= 113 905 205 T used on Beetle too @32*
I added the advance totals, maybe that will help? @= about, *= degrees |
awesome tasb, thanks for that clarification
anyone have thoughts on my 6v 12v questions?
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NomadStudioBus
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Seneca, SC
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:51 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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6v to 12v? Replace all together?
So after all this sleuthing, I know I'll need at least a distributor, coil, starter, battery... not to mention new carb and fuel pump rebuild.. if not more, just to see if this engine is still good and runs.
not to mention I have to replace all the wiring...
Would it make sense to just get all those parts as 12v and do the conversion?
What are the pro's and cons of 6v vs.12v? ( I looked at some of the 6v to 12v threads and found little there to be helpful)
or just get a rebuilt turn key?
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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If it's still the original 6v I prefer to keep it that way. It does require some maintenance of ground contacts and sometimes the headlights/taillights are not as bright due to higher resistance. Two of my VW's are still 6v, the 65 Bus was optioned 12v at the factory and the single cab came to me already converted to 12v.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| NomadStudioBus wrote: |
6v to 12v? Replace all together?
So after all this sleuthing, I know I'll need at least a distributor, coil, starter, battery... not to mention new carb and fuel pump rebuild.. if not more, just to see if this engine is still good and runs.
not to mention I have to replace all the wiring...
Would it make sense to just get all those parts as 12v and do the conversion?
What are the pro's and cons of 6v vs.12v? ( I looked at some of the 6v to 12v threads and found little there to be helpful)
or just get a rebuilt turn key? |
There are some good threads about the conversion and a LOT of opinions for or against. I'm pro 12volt.
You don't need to change your distributor, they aren't 6 or 12 volt specific.
You will need- starter, battery, all new bulbs, headlights, coil, generator/alternator, regulator, volt drop for wipers and you should read those threads to get more info regarding starters and gen/alt wiring.
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| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| NomadStudioBus wrote: |
| 6v to 12v? Replace all together? |
Go to the stickies at the top of the bus forum web page. Start reading up in the "Split Bus FAQ and How Tos - *Read before posting*" Plenty of info on 6 or 12 volt or converting there and lots and lots more info you need to read up on.
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NomadStudioBus
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Seneca, SC
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
Go to the stickies at the top of the bus forum web page. Start reading up in the "Split Bus FAQ and How Tos - *Read before posting*" Plenty of info on 6 or 12 volt or converting there and lots and lots more info you need to read up on. |
haha.. thanks, you always say that to me. Yes. I frequent that section, and I have already read through a couple threads that go rounds and about all kinds of other stuff I'm not looking to answer.
I'm not asking how to do it and I'm not looking to become a pro mechanic at every aspect of my bus. I know a lot about a lot but not engines, so I'm asking for opinions from people who know better. I'm here to learn but I don't have time. sorry if it's annoying
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NomadStudioBus
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Seneca, SC
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| Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| crofty wrote: |
There are some good threads about the conversion and a LOT of opinions for or against. I'm pro 12volt.
You don't need to change your distributor, they aren't 6 or 12 volt specific.
You will need- starter, battery, all new bulbs, headlights, coil, generator/alternator, regulator, volt drop for wipers and you should read those threads to get more info regarding starters and gen/alt wiring. |
Thanks crofty, I appreciate that. Why are you pro 12v?
And I know I will need a lot which I listed in the original post. My bus does not currently have any of those parts. That's why I'm asking, Why would I go and get all new 6v parts if it's better to convert to 12.
I've read a lot too ..about keeping starters 6v, and better power for 12v etc.
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:43 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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No problem.
I like 12volts as its the standard for cars out there today so if I needed a jump or whatever I could get one.
Its also nice to have a USB or cigarette lighter for accessories in the bus.
Brighter lights are nice to have too. Look into running H4 headlights as well.
| NomadStudioBus wrote: |
| crofty wrote: |
There are some good threads about the conversion and a LOT of opinions for or against. I'm pro 12volt.
You don't need to change your distributor, they aren't 6 or 12 volt specific.
You will need- starter, battery, all new bulbs, headlights, coil, generator/alternator, regulator, volt drop for wipers and you should read those threads to get more info regarding starters and gen/alt wiring. |
Thanks crofty, I appreciate that. Why are you pro 12v?
And I know I will need a lot which I listed in the original post. My bus does not currently have any of those parts. That's why I'm asking, Why would I go and get all new 6v parts if it's better to convert to 12.
I've read a lot too ..about keeping starters 6v, and better power for 12v etc. |
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| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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NomadStudioBus
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Seneca, SC
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:44 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| crofty wrote: |
No problem.
I like 12volts as its the standard for cars out there today so if I needed a jump or whatever I could get one.
Its also nice to have a USB or cigarette lighter for accessories in the bus.
Brighter lights are nice to have too. Look into running H4 headlights as well.
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So it seems like it's mostly to do with electrical convenience and no difference with engine/bus performance?
I'm also asking because I plan to install a separate 12v solar powered battery system to run appliances or electronics. So I won't need the regular system to be 12v for those reasons. And if there's really not much difference in the performance then I guess it doesn't make sense to convert to 12v.
Or maybe I would tie the two systems together...
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:01 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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Only advantage 12 volt has over 6 volt is that when one has say 2 volts of voltage drop, the six volt system is doubly affected. Both need to have wiring cleaned if voltage drops every 5 to 10 years of done right. With exception of the battery cables that should be cleaned at least twice a year for as trouble free operation as possible.
One can jump a 6 volt system with 12 volt with no problem, just do it quickly, and disconnect jumper cables ASAP once engine is started.
One can buy 6 to 12 volt inverters for 5 to 20 bucks off Ebay.com. Just make sure the Amps the inverter/s produce is enough Amps that will handle the 12 volt devices used.
H4s come in both 6 and 12 volt. With either 12 volt or 6 if you use the 5 Watt higher than stock H4s, one needs to solder up riveted connections in the headlight switch, (ignition switch can be done on the outside connections for easier starting) fuse box, and all connections in the wiring need to be cleaned, dielectric greased, and tight.
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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You run 12volts on your '60 Panel, right?
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
Only advantage 12 volt has over 6 volt is that when one has say 2 volts of voltage drop, the six volt system is doubly affected. Both need to have wiring cleaned if voltage drops every 5 to 10 years of done right. With exception of the battery cables that should be cleaned at least twice a year for as trouble free operation as possible.
One can jump a 6 volt system with 12 volt with no problem, just do it quickly, and disconnect jumper cables ASAP once engine is started.
One can buy 6 to 12 volt inverters for 5 to 20 bucks off Ebay.com. Just make sure the Amps the inverter/s produce is enough Amps that will handle the 12 volt devices used.
H4s come in both 6 and 12 volt. With either 12 volt or 6 if you use the 5 Watt higher than stock H4s, one needs to solder up riveted connections in the headlight switch, (ignition switch can be done on the outside connections for easier starting) fuse box, and all connections in the wiring need to be cleaned, dielectric greased, and tight. |
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| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:56 am Post subject: Re: H 5153989 engine in 62 kombi |
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| crofty wrote: |
| You run 12volts on your '60 Panel, right? |
Yes, and 6 volts in our 1963 SC.
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