I'm installing new interior door panels - a couple of questions

[jacrider]

First, I don't think my front doors currently have the stock vapour barrier anymore. Should I be trying to replace this as I go? I am installing the ABS panels, so moisture isn't really an issue. I do have some rubber weather stripping to install on the doors to help minimize vibration.

Second, any suggestions on how much 'Fatmat' to be installing behind all the panels? I am doing a full Westy. So rear door, slider, fronts, etc.

After this, my next job to tackle is replacing the carpet, so again if I have the full front interior out, I imagine some fatmat under the front carpet areas will help?

Many thanks.

[Multiman mv]

I insulated the heck out of my van with basically the same product, dynamat extreme. They say that you can get away with strips a few inches wide a couple inches apart but i found it easier to just adhere larger sections. Probably wasteful for little to no additional benefit but i will say that the effort i went to insulate for sound and heat retention was well worth it.

I ended up using a 1/2” layer of dynaliner over the dynamat wherever i could. The dynaliner is a soft pliable foam with better heat insulating properties than sound. The combination made a big difference. I did my headliner with this combo, sliding door, drivers side mid panel, rear hatch, and rear panel over the passenger wheel well. For the front doors and floor areas i used just the dynamat extreme. It will take some time and effort but it will be worth it.

The first thing i noticed was the less tinny sound of the doors closing. I was not able to insulate behind my rear cabinet and you can feel and hear the difference when you tap on this panel compared to the rest of the panels that i insulated. The second thing i noticed was that i had to turn my stereo volume down. The display shows a number correlating to a volume level and i would always listen to tunes on a certain number. After insulating, i found i had to turn the level down because there was less road noise to overcome and the stereo actually sounded better. I wouldn’t have predicted this affect. The other thing i noticed was that i could have normal conversation with my kids who sit in the rear facing jump seats (multivan).

In terms of the vapor barrier, i think you can still buy them and i would suggest using them even though you are going with the abs. Can’t hurt to have them on there and will probably help to keep ambient moisture from reaching the inside of the van. Good luck with the project.
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1991 multivan, FAS 1.9 tdi, Peloquin limited slip
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

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I replaced the OEM door panels with the ABS ones, here are some tips I want to share:

- insulation: if you use insulation material or sound deadener, before putting it on, make sure that you clean the body panel real good using paint thinner or similar product, then use a heat gun or hair dryer to warm up the body panel and the insulation strips so they will adhere and stay there... otherwise the insulation strips may fall off specially on the front doors. On the the doors when the insulation strips fall off they will stick to window glass and you will have a big mess to remove it not counting unable to operate the window.

- fasteners: there 2 kinds of fasteners - the regular and the deluxe - I use them both the deluxe (more expensive) are better but not much. Using the regular ones expect to have a few extra ones because once you put it on and if it doesn't work you can't re-use it, they are one time use (to me).

- rattling noise: use the very thin weather stripping tape or thin pipe insulation tape here and there so you wont have rattling noises due to vibration. Use the thin one otherwise you will have problem with the fasteners.

[rmcd]

The inside of my door resembles a fish tank. Everything on the door is brand new and every time it rains water runs inside the door past the scrapers. For my life I can’t see how power switches live in this environment.

Sooooooo with this in mind. If I were to do it again. I would not have put fatmat inside the door as it is destined to fail and fall off.

I did paint on a couple coats of QuietCar but can’t tell how effective it was.

I did get a fancy vapor barrier from some insulation specialist but haven’t put it between my Werksberg panels and the door - yet.
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VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight=

[pnwkayaker]

I just replaced the front doors and the sliding door panels with ABS panels

a. they look awesome
b. I replaced the vapor barrier gone in one of the doors, put new speakers and window handles in the front
c. only installed fatmat in the front doors (no space to put insulation and still have the window go down
d. did install fatmat and lots of insulation on the sliding door

I got the deluxe fasteners and was able to use them in the front door, but they were worthless on the sliding door due to the extra insulation pushing the panel out. Ending up using some 1/4" Ford/Nissan clips from our FLAPS.

I think I'll probably redo the fasteners after the summer - will install rivets and use real screws.

Van looks awesome now!
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87 Syncro Westy EJ25 ("Tardis")

Seattle Meetup at Marymoor (link)
A collection of Simple Useful Mods (SUM) (link)

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I contacted Jim at his ad to buy some more fasteners.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1015179

he sent me a box of regular fasteners and a lot of short, black flat head metal screws ... which I use where the regular fasteners fail.

[jacrider]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I spent the afternoon and managed to get the tailgate, slider and both front doors done. I ordered the Delux style fasteners and they need a bit of finesse to work properly. The tailgate was easiest, the slider very hard. The curve in the slider made the rubber fasteners really hard. It took several goes to make it all work properly.

The fronts went well, except for I have installed the remote locks. The screws for the actuators are a problem, so you can see in this photo on the far right I ended up fastening through the new ABS panel to hold the actuators. This was a pain to get everything lined up.

All good so far. Lots of Fatmat installed behind the panels. A bit of scrubbing/drying in advance. It was a hot day here (maybe summer has arrived?) so the panels were warm. Lots of rolling to adhere the Fatmat.

Last comment is the new GoWesty window cranks are fantastic. These are the heavy-duty ones. Great product. We have had them for a while, but you can see them in the photo.

I have the last two panels (behind the passenger in the back) to install, need a bit of noodling to see how to get them installed.

Again, thanks for all the help.

[vegpedlr]

I just did this with the black panels on the slider and front doors. Love the look, since I went a fan of the OG blue/gray. Rare instance of adding plastic to make something nicer. I got the deluxe fasteners, and they are a bit tricky, have to really revisit the urge to push while screwing them in. Just a light touch. Also found one fastener on each panel that no matter what wouldn’t set up right.

BUT I didn’t put in the Fatmat. After some research, I’ll need to see how well the hardware allows removal so I can try a little insulation. I’d love to get it a bit quieter in there.
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1985 Tintop 4 sp GW 2.3 “Connie”
2006 Mk V GTI 2.0 FSI “Penelope”

[werksberg]

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yes Jim... it's me, Dan... I sent you some $ for a batch of fasteners, I am working on another van...

I didn't receive the batch of fasteners yet... still waiting...

please PM me for references (payment, shipping address) if needed.

thanks

[Merian]

you need a vapor barrier, and maybe a vapour barrier too

hunt down an old post or thread by me for full info on how to do the entire thing the best way

- the F. doors are most imp. the rear hatch not very imp. - slider somewhat

dampening the front cowl helps some too

the rear engine and wind/tire noise from sitting on top of the front strut like a kid on a pogo stick mean that NVH is gonna git ya no matter what
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[werksberg]

[newerwesty1987]

In the professional auto insulation world, what you are talking about doing on the floor is referred to as just doing a partial insulating job.

The main noise solution in pro builds is not the dampener, which is what you are referring to, but the sound barrier. The sound barrier is basically a layer of decoupling foam with a dense, mass loaded vinyl or rubber layer which is what stops sound waves dead in their tracks. Second Skin's Luxury Liner Pro is the industry's top product. (DynaPad is Dynamat's attempt)

In doors you want about a 40% coverage of the metal surfaces with a good dampener. In addition, you can add 3M's Thinsulate SM600L in the front portion where the window isn't in the way. This will help absorb reflecting sound waves from the speakers, and road noise. You can also add the SM600L to all the cavities in the rear/sides, rear door hatch and behind the dash which has some surprisingly large echo chambers. This material is known as a "Sound Absorber" which is basically "step 3" in any professional sound job. You can also add a 1/8" layer of Dynaliner to the back of the door panel which decouples it and adds a mild absorbing function.

1- Dampen the metal with around 40% coverage or more.
2- Cover all floors and engine hatch/firewall with a Sound Barrier.
3- Use a Sound Absorber in every place possible.

Make sure everything is as air-tight as possible and this is key.

The best products to use for steps 1 and 2 are made by Second Skin which is a pro level brand used in many stereo and build shops. Their Damplifier Pro sheets beat all the rest for dampening. (Boom Mat also makes some decent stuff and Dynamat is ok but you pay for their prosumer type marketing.) The well known Fatmat "roll" of deadener is actually just rebranded house roofing material and is a low budget product for sure.

Pic of Luxury Liner from Second Skin

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hi Jim,

PM and email sent.

dan