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John Moxon Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004 Posts: 13943 Location: Southampton U.K.
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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Ghia in Torino |
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Trylon wrote: |
John Moxon wrote: |
Trylon wrote: |
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After Volkswagen approved the design in November 1953, the Karmann Ghia debuted (at the 1955 Paris and Frankfurt[11] auto shows and at the Kasino Hotel in Westfalia, Germany, on July 14, 1955) and went into production, first at Ghia and then in Osnabrück — ultimately to reach a production over 445,000, running 19 years virtually unchanged. |
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That's Wiki for you...I don't think you'll find the highlighted reference to production cars being made by Ghia in any other history of the car. Only prototype cars and there's no agreement on how many of those were needed but probably less than five. |
Prototype production is good enough for me! I'm gonna drag my wife over to the shady side of Torino and photograph a ruin. I'll send you the pic and you can PS your car in front of it! |
You know what they say...photographs or it didn't happen. _________________ John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Ghia in Torino |
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John Moxon wrote: |
Trylon wrote: |
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After Volkswagen approved the design in November 1953, the Karmann Ghia debuted (at the 1955 Paris and Frankfurt[11] auto shows and at the Kasino Hotel in Westfalia, Germany, on July 14, 1955) and went into production, first at Ghia and then in Osnabrück — ultimately to reach a production over 445,000, running 19 years virtually unchanged. |
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That's Wiki for you...I don't think you'll find the highlighted reference to production cars being made by Ghia in any other history of the car. Only prototype cars and there's no agreement on how many of those were needed but probably less than five. |
That wiki statement references this interview with Virgil Max Exner, Jr, :
http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Design/Exner_interview.htm
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...when Ghia did the Karmann Ghia, they built the prototype car there at Ghia, and then they were rewarded [with] the contract to do the initial pre-production cars. Ghia did the same thing with the Renault Caravel, and with some Fiats.
Q: This would be their payoff?
A: Yes, this would be their initial payoff -- any profit from initial production. It would also be, sort of, proof of whether the product was going to be popular and sell. Pininfarina worked the same way and expanded into an even larger production factory.
Q: Now in the case of the Karmann Ghia, how did Karmann come into the body works?
A: Karmann had been long affiliated with Volkswagen, mostly in building V.W. production convertibles. Ghia contracted with Karmann to do much of the prototype and new model development through Karmann for Volkswagen. When Segre showed Karmann the V.W. coupe, Karmann said, "I'd like to build that!" Initial production was done at Ghia, and Ghia got the profits off of those, and then they shifted the main production to Karmann after Karmann expanded with V.W. financing, and he continued production. I believe Ghia still got a royalty from it. They did the same thing with Renault with the Caravel. |
Further interesting info from the interview:
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...I owned the first Karmann-Ghia that ever came to the State of Michigan . I just loved it. It was a beauty.
Q: How many years did you have it?
A: I had it just about a year. That was during the time that I was building my sports carin 1957, and I needed money to continue. I traded it in for a standard Volkswagen and made a little bit of money out of it, because Karmanns were in such high demand. |
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John Moxon Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004 Posts: 13943 Location: Southampton U.K.
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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Ghia in Torino |
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You would think Exner would be a reliable source but he paints the picture that Ghia was the moving force behind the creation of the Karmann Ghia when in fact it was Karmann who already had close links with VW, building the Beetle Karmann Cabriolet.
It was Karmann who saw an opportunity to interest VW in a stylish new Cabriolet but each time they tried to interest Heinz Nordhorff with drawings he knocked them back. Undeterred Wilhelm Karmann contacted his friend Luigi Segre at the Ghia design studio and asked if they could draw up design for a cabriolet...unexpectedly the came up with a coupe.
So where Exner came up with the idea that Ghia had produced an early production run of the car I don't know. Ghia weren't geared up for production line manufacture, they hand built prototype cars.
Anyway there are a few contentious details surrounding the design of the Karmann Ghia but it doesn't detract from the undisputed fact that the prototype was created in the workshop of Carrozzeria Ghia in Torino...the birthplace of the Karmann Ghia. _________________ John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Ghia in Torino |
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John Moxon wrote: |
You would think Exner would be a reliable source but he paints the picture that Ghia was the moving force behind the creation of the Karmann Ghia when in fact it was Karmann who already had close links with VW, building the Beetle Karmann Cabriolet.
It was Karmann who saw an opportunity to interest VW in a stylish new Cabriolet but each time they tried to interest Heinz Nordhorff with drawings he knocked them back. Undeterred Wilhelm Karmann contacted his friend Luigi Segre at the Ghia design studio and asked if they could draw up design for a cabriolet...unexpectedly the came up with a coupe.
So where Exner came up with the idea that Ghia had produced an early production run of the car I don't know. Ghia weren't geared up for production line manufacture, they hand built prototype cars.
Anyway there are a few contentious details surrounding the design of the Karmann Ghia but it doesn't detract from the undisputed fact that the prototype was created in the workshop of Carrozzeria Ghia in Torino...the birthplace of the Karmann Ghia. |
The fog of creation.
I'm going over and see if I can find a Ghia part lying around somewhere... |
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KGCoupe Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 3580 Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Ghia in Torino |
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Trylon wrote: |
John Moxon wrote: |
You would think Exner would be a reliable source but he paints the picture that Ghia was the moving force behind the creation of the Karmann Ghia when in fact it was Karmann who already had close links with VW, building the Beetle Karmann Cabriolet.
It was Karmann who saw an opportunity to interest VW in a stylish new Cabriolet but each time they tried to interest Heinz Nordhorff with drawings he knocked them back. Undeterred Wilhelm Karmann contacted his friend Luigi Segre at the Ghia design studio and asked if they could draw up design for a cabriolet...unexpectedly the came up with a coupe.
So where Exner came up with the idea that Ghia had produced an early production run of the car I don't know. Ghia weren't geared up for production line manufacture, they hand built prototype cars.
Anyway there are a few contentious details surrounding the design of the Karmann Ghia but it doesn't detract from the undisputed fact that the prototype was created in the workshop of Carrozzeria Ghia in Torino...the birthplace of the Karmann Ghia. |
The fog of creation.
I'm going over and see if I can find a Ghia part lying around somewhere... |
Chances are even if you do find a part lying around, it won't be correct for your car so you'll just end up tossing it aside.
()
Have a great trip - be sure to take lots of pics to share here with your new Karmann Ghia aficionado friends. |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Ghia in Torino |
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KGCoupe wrote: |
Trylon wrote: |
John Moxon wrote: |
You would think Exner would be a reliable source but he paints the picture that Ghia was the moving force behind the creation of the Karmann Ghia when in fact it was Karmann who already had close links with VW, building the Beetle Karmann Cabriolet.
It was Karmann who saw an opportunity to interest VW in a stylish new Cabriolet but each time they tried to interest Heinz Nordhorff with drawings he knocked them back. Undeterred Wilhelm Karmann contacted his friend Luigi Segre at the Ghia design studio and asked if they could draw up design for a cabriolet...unexpectedly the came up with a coupe.
So where Exner came up with the idea that Ghia had produced an early production run of the car I don't know. Ghia weren't geared up for production line manufacture, they hand built prototype cars.
Anyway there are a few contentious details surrounding the design of the Karmann Ghia but it doesn't detract from the undisputed fact that the prototype was created in the workshop of Carrozzeria Ghia in Torino...the birthplace of the Karmann Ghia. |
The fog of creation.
I'm going over and see if I can find a Ghia part lying around somewhere... |
Chances are even if you do find a part lying around, it won't be correct for your car so you'll just end up tossing it aside.
()
Have a great trip - be sure to take lots of pics to share here with your new Karmann Ghia aficionado friends. |
Yeah, who needs that crap!
Oh, there are going to be pictures!
Thanks for your interest |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Ghia in Torino |
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Gotta give a shout out for a member of the Italian Karmann Ghia Facebook group D Materials Italia!
He responded to my thanks for all the great links with:
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Thanks to you, come and visit Turin.
Below I send you other links to things you need to see.
Enjoy your holiday and you need information when you are here, it will be a pleasure for me to help you. Best regards Enrico (Turin |
)
And then proceeded to post 17 links to things I should see!
Something about the Karmann Ghia seems to bring out the best in people...
(Well except for a few curmudgeons on the site— you know who you are) |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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KGCoupe Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 3580 Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia in Torino |
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Trylon wrote: |
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Something about the Karmann Ghia seems to bring out the best in people...
(Well except for a few curmudgeons on the site— you know who you are) |
I think you'll find it's not just limited to Karmann Ghia enthusiasts, but rather Vintage Volkswagen enthusiasts in general.
At least in my experience, VW people have always been very kind, fun, down to earth people.
They're like "the people's people", if you will. |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia in Torino |
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KGCoupe wrote: |
Trylon wrote: |
...
Something about the Karmann Ghia seems to bring out the best in people...
(Well except for a few curmudgeons on the site— you know who you are) |
I think you'll find it's not just limited to Karmann Ghia enthusiasts, but rather Vintage Volkswagen enthusiasts in general.
At least in my experience, VW people have always been very kind, fun, down to earth people.
They're like "the people's people", if you will. |
It’s a new world to me— welcomed and don’t even have a VW yet! |
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iowegian Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 9826 Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Ghia in Torino |
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Trylon wrote: |
Gotta give a shout out for a member of the Italian Karmann Ghia Facebook group D Materials Italia!
He responded to my thanks for all the great links with:
Quote: |
Thanks to you, come and visit Turin.
Below I send you other links to things you need to see.
Enjoy your holiday and you need information when you are here, it will be a pleasure for me to help you. Best regards Enrico (Turin |
)
And then proceeded to post 17 links to things I should see!
Something about the Karmann Ghia seems to bring out the best in people...
(Well except for a few curmudgeons on the site— you know who you are) |
Hey-------I earned my title fair and square and I ain't sorry, neither. |
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