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Speedsterboy
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Joined: April 18, 2004
Posts: 744
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 Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:28 am Post subject: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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Hello everyone. Can anyone here point me to where I can purchase the correct flywheel and clutch so that I can bolt on a souped up Type1 motor to my 901 gearbox? I am removing the current Flat6 conversion in it as it feels tail heavy and eventually intend to install back an original 1968 Porsche Flat4 when I find one with the correct or close to it, engine numbers. I'm happy to also purchase a good used flywheel and clutch as this is purely experimental at this stage. Speaking of flywheel, I will probably need 8 dowel to match my Type1 crank. I am also looking for the 912 body engine hanger points sections if anyone knows of a pair available or off a junked 912. This message might sound like I know what I'm talking about but just for the record, I cannot even perform a basic tune on a Type1 motor  Thank you![/b]
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[email protected]
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Joined: December 28, 2016
Posts: 279
Location: atlanta ga
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:34 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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| way too much rig up to install a type 1 into a 912, not so bad in a 356, so what I would do is suffer with the six currently in the car until you find a 912 engine (complete and ready to bolt in) for the car. They should be fairly easy to find, AND the cars are worth so much money these days that you are making a smart move to reinstall an original engine. DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME TRYING TO INSTALL A TYPE 1 |
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13263
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:43 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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Disagree with the DR. If you have a car and need to put a VW engine in it, it's easy and works
here is a good write up from Clark Blumberg on Pelican:
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I have done it and run it. For certain: A VW Type 1, 1300, 1500, or 1600 does fit into the Porsche 912 chassis. Specificaly, it will bolt right into your 901 transmission. However, you will need some longer studs on the engine case in order for them to extend far enough into the Porsche tranny's bell housing so you can thread the nuts on.
All you need to do is use your Superbeetle 12v flywheel but use a Porsche style diaphram assembly with the clutch. A Heavy Duty 200 mm friction disk is what I used with the Porsche Style diaphram assembly. The Porsche style diaphram has the individual fingers at the centre instead of the ring at the center of the diaphram that the VW clutches use. The fingers will interface correctly with the Porsche 901 transmission's stock Throw Out Bearing.
Now the only thing you need to consider is that the Porsche Starter will only engage into the Superbeetle Flywheel teeth approximately one third of the way since the VW flywheel does not stick out as far as the Porsche 912 Flywheel. Many say that this will wear out your Flywheel's starter teeth prematurely and others told my that they used it like that without problems.
My soloution was the remove the starter motor and then remove the rear aluminium housing off the starter that contains the starters mounting flange. I simply mounted and machined the housing on a lathe in order to remove about .100 inch off the flange surface. Basically speaking, this allows the starter to extend further into the transmissions bell housing so that it gets more bite on the flywheel and it covers more of the flywheels teeth surface thus reducing the wear on the flywheel ring gear teeth.
For exhaust I used a regular four into one Type 1 extractor with a regular single glass pack muffler that came with it and it fits fine except the exaust pipe exits under the right side of the valance panel other than the left side as the original 912's pipe did. If you can live with the half moon exhaust pipe cut out on the valance being on the right when you pipe is on the left then no problem. Otherwise, you will need to do some welding the change the muffler around.
For engine tin use the stock or chrome VW engine tin with the stock 912 Porsche Tin surrounding the engine. In other words, cut and trim the Porsche 912 Firewall, rear tin (over the muffler), and two side pieces to fit to the regular VW tin on the engine and bolt it together.
For a rear engine mount use a Type 2 bus mount adapter plate on your Type 1 engine block and use the stock 912 rear cross mount. Jack your engine to the correct level once it is installed into the car with the front tranny mounts installed then use some 2.5 inch angle iron to span between the bus adapter mount and the 912 cross mount. I used two pieces of angle iron for the left side of the pully and two on the right. Now just weld or bolt them together so your engine is hanging in position.
Go to my 911/912 pages through my web site at www.geocities.com/clarkblumberg for more info or email me.
Have Fun, Clark. |
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
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Location: Tejas!
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Speedsterboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2004
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:19 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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Thanks for your responses! I'll look into it further. Cheers!
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016
Posts: 279
Location: atlanta ga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:24 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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so you hit it on the money, a lot of work, misc parts gathering and labor all wasted when you can spend the same time and devote that money to buying a 912 engine and just bolting it in. I would continue to drive with the Porsche six cylinder engine (standard equipment for all short wheel base cars 65-68, and yes they are tail happy) and save your money and devote your time to the search, figure 4500 for a good used running engine with the mounts, the heat exchangers and the sheetmetal. You SHOULD be able to sell the 911 engine for enough to EASILY cover it. Keep your porsche a porsche, and buy a vw beetle (like I did) if you want a beetle
| Erik G wrote: |
Disagree with the DR. If you have a car and need to put a VW engine in it, it's easy and works
here is a good write up from Clark Blumberg on Pelican:
| Quote: |
I have done it and run it. For certain: A VW Type 1, 1300, 1500, or 1600 does fit into the Porsche 912 chassis. Specificaly, it will bolt right into your 901 transmission. However, you will need some longer studs on the engine case in order for them to extend far enough into the Porsche tranny's bell housing so you can thread the nuts on.
All you need to do is use your Superbeetle 12v flywheel but use a Porsche style diaphram assembly with the clutch. A Heavy Duty 200 mm friction disk is what I used with the Porsche Style diaphram assembly. The Porsche style diaphram has the individual fingers at the centre instead of the ring at the center of the diaphram that the VW clutches use. The fingers will interface correctly with the Porsche 901 transmission's stock Throw Out Bearing.
Now the only thing you need to consider is that the Porsche Starter will only engage into the Superbeetle Flywheel teeth approximately one third of the way since the VW flywheel does not stick out as far as the Porsche 912 Flywheel. Many say that this will wear out your Flywheel's starter teeth prematurely and others told my that they used it like that without problems.
My soloution was the remove the starter motor and then remove the rear aluminium housing off the starter that contains the starters mounting flange. I simply mounted and machined the housing on a lathe in order to remove about .100 inch off the flange surface. Basically speaking, this allows the starter to extend further into the transmissions bell housing so that it gets more bite on the flywheel and it covers more of the flywheels teeth surface thus reducing the wear on the flywheel ring gear teeth.
For exhaust I used a regular four into one Type 1 extractor with a regular single glass pack muffler that came with it and it fits fine except the exaust pipe exits under the right side of the valance panel other than the left side as the original 912's pipe did. If you can live with the half moon exhaust pipe cut out on the valance being on the right when you pipe is on the left then no problem. Otherwise, you will need to do some welding the change the muffler around.
For engine tin use the stock or chrome VW engine tin with the stock 912 Porsche Tin surrounding the engine. In other words, cut and trim the Porsche 912 Firewall, rear tin (over the muffler), and two side pieces to fit to the regular VW tin on the engine and bolt it together.
For a rear engine mount use a Type 2 bus mount adapter plate on your Type 1 engine block and use the stock 912 rear cross mount. Jack your engine to the correct level once it is installed into the car with the front tranny mounts installed then use some 2.5 inch angle iron to span between the bus adapter mount and the 912 cross mount. I used two pieces of angle iron for the left side of the pully and two on the right. Now just weld or bolt them together so your engine is hanging in position.
Go to my 911/912 pages through my web site at www.geocities.com/clarkblumberg for more info or email me.
Have Fun, Clark. |
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Speedsterboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2004
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| so you hit it on the money, a lot of work, misc parts gathering and labor all wasted when you can spend the same time and devote that money to buying a 912 engine and just bolting it in. I would continue to drive with the Porsche six cylinder engine (standard equipment for all short wheel base cars 65-68, and yes they are tail happy) and save your money and devote your time to the search, figure 4500 for a good used running engine with the mounts, the heat exchangers and the sheetmetal. You SHOULD be able to sell the 911 engine for enough to EASILY cover it. Keep your porsche a porsche, and buy a vw beetle (like I did) if you want a beetle |
I agree with the points you highlighted but when was the last time you found a complete, decent running 912 engine for $4.5K? -and will only do 90HP? Further to this, the simplicity, ease/cost of maintenance and extra HP of the VW will be far more superior. Thanks nonetheless.
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016
Posts: 279
Location: atlanta ga
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:25 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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| robert at dc automotive and e bay |
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13263
Location: Tejas!
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Alan Brase
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Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:15 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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You might also consider that Porsche themselves glued in some cast iron pig counterweights inside the front bumper on SWB 911's No doubt you are missing these. Genuine ones probably pricy, but 100 lb of lead might be made to fit quite easily and would correct things somewhat.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home
Last edited by Alan Brase on Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4023
Location: WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
so you hit it on the money, a lot of work, misc parts gathering and labor all wasted when you can spend the same time and devote that money to buying a 912 engine and just bolting it in. I would continue to drive with the Porsche six cylinder engine (standard equipment for all short wheel base cars 65-68, and yes they are tail happy) and save your money and devote your time to the search, figure 4500 for a good used running engine with the mounts, the heat exchangers and the sheetmetal. You SHOULD be able to sell the 911 engine for enough to EASILY cover it. Keep your porsche a porsche, and buy a vw beetle (like I did) if you want a beetle
| Erik G wrote: |
Disagree with the DR. If you have a car and need to put a VW engine in it, it's easy and works
here is a good write up from Clark Blumberg on Pelican:
| Quote: |
I have done it and run it. For certain: A VW Type 1, 1300, 1500, or 1600 does fit into the Porsche 912 chassis. Specificaly, it will bolt right into your 901 transmission. However, you will need some longer studs on the engine case in order for them to extend far enough into the Porsche tranny's bell housing so you can thread the nuts on.
All you need to do is use your Superbeetle 12v flywheel but use a Porsche style diaphram assembly with the clutch. A Heavy Duty 200 mm friction disk is what I used with the Porsche Style diaphram assembly. The Porsche style diaphram has the individual fingers at the centre instead of the ring at the center of the diaphram that the VW clutches use. The fingers will interface correctly with the Porsche 901 transmission's stock Throw Out Bearing.
Now the only thing you need to consider is that the Porsche Starter will only engage into the Superbeetle Flywheel teeth approximately one third of the way since the VW flywheel does not stick out as far as the Porsche 912 Flywheel. Many say that this will wear out your Flywheel's starter teeth prematurely and others told my that they used it like that without problems.
My soloution was the remove the starter motor and then remove the rear aluminium housing off the starter that contains the starters mounting flange. I simply mounted and machined the housing on a lathe in order to remove about .100 inch off the flange surface. Basically speaking, this allows the starter to extend further into the transmissions bell housing so that it gets more bite on the flywheel and it covers more of the flywheels teeth surface thus reducing the wear on the flywheel ring gear teeth.
For exhaust I used a regular four into one Type 1 extractor with a regular single glass pack muffler that came with it and it fits fine except the exaust pipe exits under the right side of the valance panel other than the left side as the original 912's pipe did. If you can live with the half moon exhaust pipe cut out on the valance being on the right when you pipe is on the left then no problem. Otherwise, you will need to do some welding the change the muffler around.
For engine tin use the stock or chrome VW engine tin with the stock 912 Porsche Tin surrounding the engine. In other words, cut and trim the Porsche 912 Firewall, rear tin (over the muffler), and two side pieces to fit to the regular VW tin on the engine and bolt it together.
For a rear engine mount use a Type 2 bus mount adapter plate on your Type 1 engine block and use the stock 912 rear cross mount. Jack your engine to the correct level once it is installed into the car with the front tranny mounts installed then use some 2.5 inch angle iron to span between the bus adapter mount and the 912 cross mount. I used two pieces of angle iron for the left side of the pully and two on the right. Now just weld or bolt them together so your engine is hanging in position.
Go to my 911/912 pages through my web site at www.geocities.com/clarkblumberg for more info or email me.
Have Fun, Clark. |
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The six was standard equipment only on the 911, the four was standard equipment on the 912. A VW motor built to match the 912 would be fussy to keep tuned and eat a ton of gas. The stock 912 motor is a HEMI with ported intake and exhaust heads a stroker crank angled valves cam designed with a power band from 3K to 6K and a race car history while the VW is a econo box motor designed to rev to 4500 RPMs and without a lot machine work and parts buying balancing and fitting together you won't be saving any money. Remember that last photo showing showing the hanger still needs all the tin fabbed to seal the engine compartment. Heater and throttle cable will need work-a-rounds. Put a wanted add in the classifieds. |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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| Starbucket wrote: |
...
The six was standard equipment only on the 911, the four was standard equipment on the 912. A VW motor built to match the 912 would be fussy to keep tuned and eat a ton of gas. The stock 912 motor is a HEMI with ported intake and exhaust heads a stroker crank angled valves cam designed with a power band from 3K to 6K and a race car history while the VW is a econo box motor designed to rev to 4500 RPMs and without a lot machine work and parts buying balancing and fitting together you won't be saving any money. Remember that last photo showing showing the hanger still needs all the tin fabbed to seal the engine compartment. Heater and throttle cable will need work-a-rounds. Put a wanted add in the classifieds. |
Haha. You must have drank a lot of the Porsche Kool Aid!
RACE CAR HISTORY? Please tell us where and when? with PUSHROD type 616 engine?
1951 LeMans? the 356SL?
1952 or was if 53, a Porsche Competition Roadster (aka America Roadster) won a race in New York. These were both Porsche spec engine built with VW crank cases.
Almost every other Porsche victory I know of came with type 547, 587, 771, and type 912 (917) engines. These are all 4 cam engine and no relation to the 616 engine used in the 1965-69 912 cars.
This evolved pushrod 4 was sadly underdesigned and over taxed when used in the 912. Rarely did they live much longer than 100,000km in a 912.
that's 61,000 miles.
I think Hobert Kennedy called them "expensive bomb with a short fuse".
I have a 912 I bought without an engine. It will probably get a type 616 engine, but maybe not.
The very nicest engine would be a Subaru with a turbo. Maybe the JDM 2 liter one.
But a type 1 or type 4 (914 spec, not a bus engine) would be quite sweet, too. Porsche thought so, building the 912E in 1976, a very sweet package, BTW.
That HEMI exhaust valve is no big deal. Back in the early days, Okrasa heads made more power.
Power band? purely up to the cam grinder and guy that specs the heads and carbs.
Any good builder could make nice engine tin and carb linkage in 20 hours.
Kool aid. Nothing more.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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Having said all that, put any damned engine in it you want. That new 2/3 of a 911 engine, the 4 cylinder POLO engine in neat as hell, but I bet you'd spend $30k
I'd do what I could to make the thing handle better and just keep the 911 engine in it:
front bumper counter weights
Maybe bigger tires/ wheels in the rear?
Keep in mind, the only thing they did to make a SWB car a LWB car is to move the axle stub carriers back 2 inches. Moved the back wheels rearward 2 inches.
there are many big engined SWB cars. How do them make them not feel dangerous?
A 911 6 cylinder of any hp is a glorious engine. If you already have it installed, I'd try to live with it. There is almost zero difference in the chassis set up. Stiffer rear torsion bars, I think, plus the weights.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4023
Location: WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:47 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Targa 912 to Type1 Engine Conversion |
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I SAID "Compared to a VW, Learn to read. Subaru  Now you are talking real tail heavy, Water cooling, Cutting and Butchering a PORSCHE, They should take your keys away just for saying that. |
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