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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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 Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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thanks all,
we'll get it apart this winter, it's the spare AT at the moment anyways..
I've a Porsche 944 internals to put in  |
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h00drat
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Joined: May 31, 2016
Posts: 881
Location: Hood River
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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Alright.
So my new friction and steels came in yesterday. Started piecing the DD back together, and I THINK I found the source of my issue.
I decided to check the end play again, and after doing so, it appears that I have an entire MM of too much end play. My best guess is that when I checked the end play gap last time, I might not have pushed the circlip all the way UP in the DD, therefor not getting an accurate measurement.
That said, per the Bentley, they sell different size Circlips to account for this. My current clip is 2.0mm. According to the Bentley, the largest clip made is 2.5mm which won't get me there.
Any thoughts on best steps forward?
Worth noting that my Bentley is for the Vanagon, and the DD is from the Audi. So it's possible that the specs are different...but I can't imagine they would be THAT different.
New vs. Old.
Gap shown without circlip installed.
Circlip size notes:
Bentley:
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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shooting from the hip because I really don't know if you can or should
but can you use/stack 2 circlips to get the dimensions you need? |
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h00drat
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Location: Hood River
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vwhammer
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Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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hmm this is interesting.
I have all of my parts laid out to assemble my direct drum.
I will try to get it together tonight and see what it measures.
Maybe one more set of numbers will at least give us some sort of baseline to work with.
I have not looked at the procedure but I also wonder how the piston is properly located when doing this measurement.
Is it possible that initial assembly may have pressed the piston in a bit further than it should be?
It is possible to hit it with a little air to engage the clutch then let the springs push it back then measure again? |
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Butcher
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Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 1285
Location: Right Here
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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I find it hard to believe there is something not right with that much clearence.
That said, IF everything is set up perfect AND the clearence is too large, I would not have a problem stacking to clips to obtain that gap. That is assuming that there is enough room to stack the clips. I would stagger the clips.
Are all the steels the same thickness? Could you stack an extra steel and use a thinner clip? |
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h00drat
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Location: Hood River
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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Interesting thought in applying air to release and then reseat the piston. Then I could check the gap again.
As far as I cam tell the piston is sitting on a lip in the direct drum, so it can't sit any lower, and any higher there would be a gap, so I believe it is installed correctly.
The steels are 2mm, and the frictions are 2.25mm. By my math, I could not add another friction and make it up with a circlip, at least not with the available circlip sizes.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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danfromsyr
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Location: Syracuse, NY
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h00drat
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vwhammer
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Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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| wonder if Matt can get them? |
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Butcher
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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| h00drat wrote: |
| The steels are 2mm, and the frictions are 2.25mm. By my math, I could not add another friction and make it up with a circlip, at least not with the available circlip sizes. |
I do not think it's wise to have two frictions together. If you added a 2.0mm steel and a 1.5mm circlip, you should be in the ball park. The problem is if you do not have a 1.5mm clip.
I still think you are missing something. |
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h00drat
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Location: Hood River
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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I wouldn't put two frictions together. Adding a friction seems like a bad solution compared to doubling up clips.
I don't know where/how I would add a friction even if I wanted to.
The current layout it this...
Piston
Steel
Friction
Steel
Friction
Steel
Friction
Steel
Friction
Large Spacer (steel)
Circlip
What do you think I'm missing?
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<<Tyler>>
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MarkWard
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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I’ll check the Audi manual tomorrow if I remember. I have a vague memory of different thickness final steel in one drum.I’ll also slip a feeler blade in the Vanagon assembled drum I have 4 sale. If I were adding a second circlip, I’d be suspect of my assembly.
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h00drat
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h00drat
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MarkWard
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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You can’t trust a parts diagram. You need the service manual and even those have errors peppered in them.
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h00drat
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vwhammer
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Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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Well it does not help your cause any but I put my DD pack back together and it all fits real nice.
I have a 2mm thick snap ring and my end play or whatever it's called is approximately 2.23mm |
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h00drat
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vwhammer
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| Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle |
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Yes I have the same set up. Piston-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-steel-friction-thick steel plate-snap ring.
All this in an Audi DD HUB.
I could probably take it back apart and we can do some measuring to see where the main difference might be.
That's about the only way I can think to get to the bottom of this. |
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