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Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle
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vwhammer
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Little late tonight. I will try to get those measurements tomorrow.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

https://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+5000+turbo/a50t/1988-12/3/323-63000/

Using this link, there is no different size snap rings. The adjustment is in #23 which they call a pressure plate. They also have an additional plate #21 which makes it look like there are two steels before any frictions are added.

I'm not certain I read that you have #21 in your stack.

With all the transmissions i have taken apart [mostly Mercedes] typically the adjustment is really close to perfect once you put on new frictions. The adjustments seem to be mostly from the machining of the drum and other components which may be difficult to keep identical. If there was ever a large change in an adjustment, I always found something I screwed up or had installed incorrectly.

With that much gap, as mentioned, something seems like it had grown legs. #21? Just a thought.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

21 is in the forward clutch. Iím dealing with the direct clutch.

Iím 100% sure I have all of the parts in it.
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vwhammer
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

h00drat wrote:
So measuring in the same way that you did, Iím getting 32.5mm for my DD from the piston to the top of the DD.

If I eliminate the friction from the measurement I get close to 35mm

What are you friction and steel measurements? Here are mine.

Steel: 2mm
Friction: 2.25mm


"eliminate the friction from the measurement"?
I do not have a friction involved in my measurement.
The base of my caliper is resting on top of the ruler while the stem that sticks out to do this sort of measuring is resting directly on the piston surface where the first steel would rest.

Anyway my steels all measure 2mm and my frictions are all pretty much right at 2.30mm +- 0.02mm
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

I meant to say from the piston. I was measuring from the piston, then from the base of the drum to try to see if our pistons are the same size.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Ahh ok I gotcha now.
Well if I measure on the drum and not the piston I get 34.10 ish.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Your frictions are a little thicker than mine, but not enough to make up my extra 1mm gap.

Last variable is the size of the large spacer / thrust plate on the top of the stack.

Otherwise, I might have to order a new piston.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Based on your measurements, my DD housing is about 1 mm taller than yours. I will call WIT to see if there are different frictions or steels that I can order.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

I also wonder if this gap is suppose to be there. This is with the forward clutch installed as well.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

My thick top plate measures about 6.23mm

I did get my piston from WIT.
part number A65965

There is either a typo on the site or for some reason the price when up a ton.

It says they want $39.06 for it and I only paid $3.64 if my receipt is right.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Whatís really bizarre is that I pulled this DD out of the Audi trans, replaced the piston, the. Put it back together with the same parts, last time. Based on that alone, it would make sense that the piston is to blame.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

I don't like that gap on the shell, but can't say for sure. I recall there is a top and bottom to the sun gear. The manual points out how to identify.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

h00drat wrote:
I also wonder if this gap is suppose to be there. This is with the forward clutch installed as well.

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Let me throw down my lunch and I will go put my set up pack together and see if it looks like yours.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

I recall the sun gear sets that depth. That's why I mentioned the orientation. From memory that shell sits on the ring around the sun gear. I also don't remember so well. I'd expect to see contact points on the shell, but if they were wrong prior to disassembly, that won't be of any help.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Yeah my assembly with the forward drum and that other drum looks just like your so I think thats ok
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Ok. So if Iím reading things correctly, our measurements from the piston are about 2mm off. Our measurements without the piston are similar. This tells me that my piston may be the issue. I might snag a piston from WIT to compare.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Well I don't know the thickness of your thrust plate (the thick top steel) so I can't really do all the math.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Same as yours.
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vwhammer
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Perhaps I should look this over when it's not so late and I have not been drinking but it does appear that if you had my piston that would get you real close to covering your 1mm shortage with all of your existing parts.
If you could get ahold of one of the thicker retaining rings you would be even better.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Building a better Vanagon automatic transaxle Reply with quote

Been disassembling and cleaning while I wait for parts, and found it interesting that the oil pump was indexed this way (I believe from the factory) Intuition tells me it should be clocked so the index marks line up.

also curious as to the opinion of when and where to use Auto assembly lube
Thanks

Jeff
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