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skitzoidbugger Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006 Posts: 88 Location: NE Florida
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
skitzoidbugger wrote: |
So Joe, I just received a set of the small tins. Looks like I need to drop the motor and pull the heads to get them installed. I'll be doing that later this week (hopefully). I'll let you know the results. |
When you have the heads off, torque the case fasteners down to spec. |
Good thinking. _________________ Measure carefully..metal stretchers are expensive. |
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skitzoidbugger Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006 Posts: 88 Location: NE Florida
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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Clara wrote: |
thing to do while engine is out:
might as well replace the oil cooler seals and main seal if it was pre 79 CHECK
new push rod tube seals. CHECK
while you have the intake off, check for holes. Make sure the heat riser is clear. (this is kind of a pain to do) CHECK
make sure clutch cable wingnut moves easily. CHECK
if fuel sender is bad- replace it CHECK- all ready installed. It's a DC so did it with engine in.
if tranny boots are bad/cracked- replace them. CHECK...Got a leaky one.
top gear oil CHECK
replace all fuel line if it is from 1979 CHECK...all new lines already in.
bleed rear brakes CHECK..Already done.
good idea to make sure it has the thermostat flaps et al. CHECK- No flaps installed..I.live in FL
engine pic? |
_________________ Measure carefully..metal stretchers are expensive. |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12384
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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skitzoidbugger wrote: |
Clara wrote: |
good idea to make sure it has the thermostat flaps et al. CHECK- No flaps installed..I.live in FL
engine pic? |
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If it often is below ~140F where you live, it is a good idea to have the thermostat properly installed to help it warm up.
On the other end of the spectrum, the flaps help it runner cooler in hot weather. |
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VWAdam Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2002 Posts: 3330 Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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Clara wrote: |
skitzoidbugger wrote: |
Clara wrote: |
good idea to make sure it has the thermostat flaps et al. CHECK- No flaps installed..I.live in FL
engine pic? |
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If it often is below ~140F where you live, it is a good idea to have the thermostat properly installed to help it warm up.
On the other end of the spectrum, the flaps help it runner cooler in hot weather. |
While I am guilty of not having a thermostat, I do have the flaps and I can tell you that even though my Bus is lowered, it runs nice and cool even during highway trips in 100 degree southeast heat like we've had this summer. _________________ All he needed was a wheel in his hand and four on the road.
'59 Euro Beetle ragtop
'63 Standard Microbus
Come to my show! www.volksjam.com
Looking for badge/sticker/frame from Western Motors in Great Falls, Montana |
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skitzoidbugger Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006 Posts: 88 Location: NE Florida
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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Update: I scattered the motor to get the little tins under the cylinders. In the process, I decided to clean up and paint the tins and give everything a thorough look see.
- Found a large mud dabber nest under the tin in front of the oil cooler and another one inside the alternator. So got those cleared out.
- Learned all about Hoover bits and made one. I also.made a flat pattern for the next time. Also need to seal around the cooler to prevent air bypass.
- Discovered the el cheapo crank pully has the timing notch in a different location thana stock VW pully. So, I'm thinking that I set the valves and timing based on an erroneous TDC. Going with a stock pully. I'll go back and reset the valves and timing.
- Before I pulled it apart, I verified the distro was functioning properly. It progressed near 30 degrees, but of course I think it had the wrong starting point.
The Taiwanese tins had noticable gaps all around the case. Going back to stock there also.
- Found the heat riser tubes on the intake clogged. An hour of ramming some stiff baling wire in there cleared them out
- Bought a new carb.
- Pulled both oil relief plungers. The rear one was indeed a little sticky.
Now I'm considering splitting the case and poking around. Check bearings, rings, etc. But I'm pushed for time cuz I have a dream of driving this thing down to BugJam in 3 weeks and Bulli the following week. I still have a ton of other stuff to do, including welding, electrical, interior, etc...What could POSSIBLY go wrong? Lol
Thanks to all of you for great advice and help.
_________________ Measure carefully..metal stretchers are expensive. |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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You found MOST of the common issues, carry on _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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joe cool Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2006 Posts: 1259 Location: Yolo County CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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Even if you don’t run a thermostat the flaps (wired open) are a good idea. They help direct the air to the right place. |
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skitzoidbugger Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006 Posts: 88 Location: NE Florida
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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Still struggling to get this bus on the road. All tin is in place except the vanes & thermostat. I'm headed to Daytona Bulli next weekend and will try and find a set there. Unfortunately, looks like I'll be driving the Chevy pickup.
In the meantime, I took it out for a second test run. Oil pressure still drops to zero after a few miles, with accompanying oil light at idle. Weather has turned a bit cooler (low 80s), so not sure yet about running hot.
At 40mph, there was a VERY loud whine from back there. Transmission was serviced, but I know it was leaking around the boots, so I'll recheck it. I had to keep old towels under the RH boot.
I know these are not power houses, but it does seem like it revs awfully high to get up to speed. I never made it past 40mph. I'm running 14" stock rims with 195-60-R14 tires. Should I go to a taller tire to decrease engine RPM?
Steering also seems too sloppy after I put new bushings into the steering gear box and replaced the front beam swing pin and bushings. I had my girlfriend jiggle the wheel while I watched everything underneath and it all looked surprisingly good. Maybe a narrower tire will help there.
All in all, this vehicle is frustrating the crap out of me. Any words of advice / encouragement will be greatly appreciated.
_________________ Measure carefully..metal stretchers are expensive. |
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joe cool Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2006 Posts: 1259 Location: Yolo County CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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Your oil pressure issue would concern me a lot.
It is possible the oil pickup tube has come loose from the case. I would drain the oil, remove the sump plate and screen, and stick my fingers up into the now revealed hole and try and wiggle the oil pickup tube to see if it is loose. It is supposed to be peened into the case and also held by a nut on the back of one of the oil sump studs. If necessary it can be repaired without removing the engine.
Type 1 transmissions all look the same on the outside but can have radically different gearing on the inside. Maybe a beetle 4th, wrong ring and pinion? There is a method of turning the crank and counting wheel rotations to determine the gearing but you will have to search for it. Good luck. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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Get:
1. A candy or meat thermometer that has a 6" (150mm) long probe, and about 1" (25mm) round face so it can fit down with the case so close to the oil dipstick tube.
2. A tachometer to wire in temporary for a 15 minute or so ride. Have a passenger hold the tach and write down when you hit 1,500 RPM in 2-4th gears, and 3,000 RPM in 1-4th gears.
These are a must to have one around:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trk...acat=34998
If you look for one of the thinner ones, they are easier to pack onboard for trips. The ones with dwell, tach (get the one with the 4-6-8 cylinder selector switch), and voltmeter, among other functions are a must.
Did you measure the cooling fan width yet?? _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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skitzoidbugger Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006 Posts: 88 Location: NE Florida
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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joe cool wrote: |
Your oil pressure issue would concern me a lot.
It is possible the oil pickup tube has come loose from the case. I would drain the oil, remove the sump plate and screen, and stick my fingers up into the now revealed hole and try and wiggle the oil pickup tube to see if it is loose. It is supposed to be peened into the case and also held by a nut on the back of one of the oil sump studs. If necessary it can be repaired without removing the engine.
Type 1 transmissions all look the same on the outside but can have radically different gearing on the inside. Maybe a beetle 4th, wrong ring and pinion? There is a method of turning the crank and counting wheel rotations to determine the gearing but you will have to search for it. Good luck. |
Just did an oil change and the oil pickup looks good.
I'll dig into the gearing issue. I've done similar on American rear wheel drives. Count rotations on the driveshaft vs rotations on the rear wheel. Hmmmm... gotta be a way. _________________ Measure carefully..metal stretchers are expensive. |
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skitzoidbugger Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006 Posts: 88 Location: NE Florida
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
Get:
1. A candy or meat thermometer that has a 6" (150mm) long probe, and about 1" (25mm) round face so it can fit down with the case so close to the oil dipstick tube.
2. A tachometer to wire in temporary for a 15 minute or so ride. Have a passenger hold the tach and write down when you hit 1,500 RPM in 2-4th gears, and 3,000 RPM in 1-4th gears.
These are a must to have one around:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trk...acat=34998
If you look for one of the thinner ones, they are easier to pack onboard for trips. The ones with dwell, tach (get the one with the 4-6-8 cylinder selector switch), and voltmeter, among other functions are a must.
Did you measure the cooling fan width yet?? |
I'll pick up a candy thermometer at Wallyworld and get some readings.
I actually own an engine analyzer with the 4-6-8 selector.
The fan width looked good as it barely tucks inside the shroud. _________________ Measure carefully..metal stretchers are expensive. |
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skitzoidbugger Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006 Posts: 88 Location: NE Florida
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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Every pic I see shows multiple notches in the crank pully. One for TDC, and another for 7 degrees, etc. I installed a stock pulley from another engine and it has a single notch at TDC. So...I'm guessing where the timing actually is set. I think I'll buy a degreed pully. _________________ Measure carefully..metal stretchers are expensive. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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skitzoidbugger wrote: |
The fan width looked good as it barely tucks inside the shroud. |
All but the thinnest fan will look like that, and any width of fan could be shimmed to fit like that!! Measure it next time!!! _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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joe cool Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2006 Posts: 1259 Location: Yolo County CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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skitzoidbugger wrote: |
Every pic I see shows multiple notches in the crank pully. One for TDC, and another for 7 degrees, etc. I installed a stock pulley from another engine and it has a single notch at TDC. So...I'm guessing where the timing actually is set. I think I'll buy a degreed pully. |
I don’t have a pulley handy but I believe the woodruff key is at 9 o’clock when the crank is at TDC #1. |
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7045 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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skitzoidbugger wrote: |
I know these are not power houses, but it does seem like it revs awfully high to get up to speed. I never made it past 40mph. I'm running 14" stock rims with 195-60-R14 tires. Should I go to a taller tire to decrease engine RPM?
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a 195/60/14 has a 23 inch diameter, that is a honda civic tire diameter
you need a MUCH taller tire to get stock gearing. like at least 26 inches, compare to 7.00x14 bias plies. a 195/75/14 or so would work or a 195/14
Make sure to choose a C rated tire, 6 or 8 ply, or say 100 or so load rating _________________ regards
Uli
----------------------------------------
'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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When setting the valve lash the pulley marks do not need to be exact. Your marks would have to be waaay off to foul it up. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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VWAdam wrote: |
My Bus has a 1600 single port with a 30/31 built by Volksbitz on my Bus, SVDA distributor and my Bus has no overheating issues. Even in 100 degree southern heat. |
You've got a mis-match there. A 30/31 PICT should be mated to a SVA advance distributor. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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mandraks wrote: |
a 195/60/14 has a 23 inch diameter, that is a honda civic tire diameter |
Probably only a 1200Lbs. weight rating! That will get one lots of wandering around from lane to lane on the highway and interstates with moderate side winds and anytime a semi-truck passes by you. Way back when used beetle size 165R15 tires with 1200Lbs. weight rating on our type2s because the tire shops told us that they were the VW tire size. Went to proper earlier bus size tires of 205/75R15 that are 27" diameter and 1525Lbs. weight rating. Change was amazing out on the open road. Used to be we would drive thru windy places like the Columbia gorge and be wrung out from white knuckle hanging on tight to the steering wheel for just a couple of hours. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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skitzoidbugger Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006 Posts: 88 Location: NE Florida
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Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Can a pict 30/31 carb on a 1600 DP cause overheating? |
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tasb wrote: |
VWAdam wrote: |
My Bus has a 1600 single port with a 30/31 built by Volksbitz on my Bus, SVDA distributor and my Bus has no overheating issues. Even in 100 degree southern heat. |
You've got a mis-match there. A 30/31 PICT should be mated to a SVA advance distributor. |
I'm now running a 34 Pict 3. Sound ok with a 009? _________________ Measure carefully..metal stretchers are expensive. |
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