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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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 Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| Glenn wrote: |
What 009 are you using... Bosch or Chinese?
The 010 curve kicks in a bit higher than the 009. Also the 010 has a cast iron body while the 009 is cast aluminum. |
Glenn, hate to sound like such a noob to this mechanical stuff, but i am. can you explain in leymans terms what that means or how it manifests itself in a weekend warrior monster motor as opposed to the 009. Trying to determine if the extra bills spent on a non-009 dizzy is even necessary. thx in advance. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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The curve kicks in at a higher rpm which is where most high performance cams like it.
I've sold hundreds of 010s and never had anyone say the 009 was better. And i'm not saying this to sell you once since i din't have any in stock... they don't last very long.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| Glenn wrote: |
The curve kicks in at a higher rpm which is where most high performance cams like it.
I've sold hundreds of 010s and never had anyone say the 009 was better. And i'm not saying this to sell you once since i din't have any in stock... they don't last very long. |
Cool Thanks for the quick response.. |
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drumbum68
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2010
Posts: 566
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| Emeraldlion wrote: |
| Just for the record, I would check with Mark but he was probably running an original bosch 009 distrI but or in good condish. It has been mentioned here before that these are good dizzies, the knockoff and aftermarket 009's are what has gained the bad rep. |
Might be kinda hard to check with him. |
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Emeraldlion
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 743
Location: Texarkana, TX
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:29 am Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| Oh, if he has passed then my apologies for any perceived disrespect. I don't /haven't spent enough attention to the various members that are no longer with us. Thanks for letting me know |
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:45 am Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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But without JPM and other nordic and german engine builders we would be still struggling to go over past ++200hp or so with street engines 
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jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3444
Location: Garage
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| Ca. engine builders had no problem getting 200+. |
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gprudenciop
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 606
Location: portland or
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| -Alex77- wrote: |
| But without JPM and other nordic and german engine builders we would be still struggling to go over past ++200hp or so with street engines |
The first post in this thread is talking about 210hp in 2005.. 
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busey
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2016
Posts: 420
Location: Sun City Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| Reading about Northern California's Ray Vallero, he was into the 10 second naturally aspirated 1/4 mile in the 1970's. What kinda HP would he have been pumping out of an aircooled 4-banger???? |
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Wreck
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1218
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:09 am Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| -Alex77- wrote: |
| But without JPM and other nordic and german engine builders we would be still struggling to go over past ++200hp or so with street engines |
+200HP 2.6lt type 4 . 103x78 , 47in 40 ex self ported heads , 48Dells , home made header . Cheap Scat C55 cam . 10.5 comp . True daily driver 20,000km in the last 2 years in semi tropical climate .
No Nordics or Germans involved  . Combination of information on porting coming from posts by Len Hoffman on type 4's and David Vizard's book on porting in general . Pipemax for exhaust and port size .
170WHP at 1500ft altitude (5% loss) and on a under reading dyno . the jetting still needs more work but I'm guessing just under 200WHP at sea level is achievable with a bit more tuning .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nGg7DXdUtc |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:33 am Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
| -Alex77- wrote: |
| But without JPM and other nordic and german engine builders we would be still struggling to go over past ++200hp or so with street engines |
The first post in this thread is talking about 210hp in 2005.. |
A lot has changed in the 13+ years since the thread was started....
With Pat creating a 2386 with 265 in May of 2018, and Johannes creating a 2332 with 263 in June of 2019, the new “200” seems to be closer to 250. I’m thankful, but kinda surprised that this type of development is still being done on a platform designed in the 30’s that hasn’t seen popularity at the race track in most likely 30+ years. The main stream V8 performance crowd is into its 4th generation of “small block”, and has long forgotten the engines from the Aircooled VW’s era.
Mark was definitely a hobbiest that was a true pioneer that pushed the envelope of “what if we did this....”.
Ray’s 912 was a 1350lb. race car with a 1915 that made close to the hp of Marks engine that started this thread.
Both had eye opening combinations of their time. Like a lot of greats in the hobby/industry we’ve lost, it would have been interesting what they could have built with 2019 components. |
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Wreck
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1218
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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Yes I agree it would be great to see what they could achieve in this day and age see what tricks they used that have been forgotten about .
I took it Alex77 was meaning street engines possibly running pump unleaded fuel. In his defence most of the local 200+hp cars run JPM parts. I think he was poking a bit of fun at the people on the other side of the pond . I was poking fun at him
Were the engines Pat Downs did with 265 hp and JPM's 263hp engine running on pump unleaded with cooling systems ? awesome achievements if so. Drag racing engines are a whole different ball game . |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:03 am Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| Pat’s engine had a static compression of 10.8, while Johannes was 12.0. To my knowledge, Pat’s engine was specifically built as a street engine to run on pump gas. While 12.0 is high to me for 93 octane gas, Johannes has forgotten more than I’ll know about performance VW engines. While most consider his combos race engines, they usually end up being street driven without issue. |
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7393
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| What was Pat D's combo for that engine (cam, heads, intake, and exhaust)? |
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1790
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:43 am Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| 200hp to the wheels on the street will always be extreme in a lightweight VW. You'd find yourself babying the throttle in order to keep your street tires from breaking loose from my experience. |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| 74 Thing wrote: |
| What was Pat D's combo for that engine (cam, heads, intake, and exhaust)? |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=699129&highlight=
2387cc
46x38 New Ultra Wedgeports
10.5:1 SCR
.282°@.050" cam, .630" lift
1 7/8" header
48 IDAs w/44 vents
265.9HP @7,000 rpm, and still pulling
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Wreck
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1218
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: COOL motor combos to 200+hp |
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| Dauz wrote: |
| 200hp to the wheels on the street will always be extreme in a lightweight VW. You'd find yourself babying the throttle in order to keep your street tires from breaking loose from my experience. |
I'm using Yokohama AD08 tyres , 205/50r16's and have no issue with traction , like any high performance car you just drive to conditions .
I'm guessing 200WHP would be close to 240 flywheel HP ? I may need to split the case to fix an minor oil leak and am thinking of upgrading to a more modern cam ,the scat C55 on a type 4 works out at 264 @ .050 with .530" lift . I've a web277 ([email protected] with .570" lift) sitting on the shelf which is so tempting but I doubt my lifter bores would last very long . I'd like to go with a Raptor cam but can't justify the $1200AUD price tag to gain possibly another 10 or 15 HP considering I only race a few times of the year and drive the car to work just about every day. |
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