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94ís oor
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Onceler
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject: 94ís oor Reply with quote

I had my 94 long cylinders machines down to the length I need. Unfortunately this introduced some oor at the bottom of the cylinders. I donít have it all mocked up yet, but it appears the oor is where the skirt will ride, but not the rings. The Bentley says oor should be less than 0.01mm, but is this just for the ring area? The clearance for cylinder/piston is stated as 0.04-0.06 with a wear limit of 0.20. My piston skirts measure 93.90. The oor measures -0.06 to +0.025.

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bugguy1967
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

The roundness of your barrels doesn't mean much until they're torqued-up in the case. As long as your running clearance is adequate, run it. If you want them really round, make a jig that remembles the case to clamp your barrels and hone them round.
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

Its good your checking😁
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Bad bug
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:43 am    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

Always clean all your parts before you measure and use a torque plate to torque the cylinders in before you measure them.
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andy198712
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:49 am    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

what caused them to go OOR do you think? the cutting or clamping?
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Onceler
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

Does anyone have any pictures of a torque plate?
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HotStreetVw
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

Run it and stop stressing out. The piston skirt isnít round either.
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Onceler
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

andy198712 wrote:
what caused them to go OOR do you think? the cutting or clamping?

Removal of material caused it, cause they werenít clamped on this end.
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Onceler
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

HotStreetVw wrote:
Run it and stop stressing out. The piston skirt isnít round either.


Good enough for me! Was hoping a builder would tell me that
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Bad bug
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

Onceler wrote:
Does anyone have any pictures of a torque plate?


https://www.getlowered.com/jims-cylinder-torque-plates-for-harley-m8/

This is one for a harley engine. I am going to use old heads cut to 94mm and one half of my oxy block ( case has to be decked ) as a torque plate setup..
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Onceler
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

Bad bug wrote:
Onceler wrote:
Does anyone have any pictures of a torque plate?


https://www.getlowered.com/jims-cylinder-torque-plates-for-harley-m8/

This is one for a harley engine. I am going to use old heads cut to 94mm and one half of my oxy block ( case has to be decked ) as a torque plate setup..


Thanks. Do you just torque to 23 ft-lbs.?
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Bad bug
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

everything i am torquing will be done in stages.
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Bad bug
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

You could make a torque plate for yourself if you wanted to.
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earthquake
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

Mixing Mt. Dew and Heineken would make me OOR too!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

HotStreetVw wrote:
Run it and stop stressing out. The piston skirt isnít round either.
Shocked Confused say it aint so!!! so..the earth is flat and the skirts are.....blowing in the brezze!!!.... many skirts are quite far from round.others are close to being round... the lower end of the cylinder shouldent affect it much depending on how&where it is outa round when torqued, but just torqueing isant the all telling situation.... a goof few heat cycles from running will also change the shape. howmuch well that depends on a few things,like cylinder material, thickness,ageing, hardness and how hot it gets or dosent get. but for a vw if your clearance aint too tight your probably good. some engines when bored&honed to "size" without tqplates and then adding the torqued head the bore can be distorted to a interfearance fit.....as in the piston and cylinder will soon become 1... not good. for modern china cylinders,whoo knows what your gonna get. checking is a good idea. honeing with plates is a good idea. if you do neither atleast knock the tooth off the factory rough jagged debries filled hone job the cylinders come with.
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Onceler
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

Hmmm, maybe I can heat them in a oven several times. Say like to 300 degrees and check again. Iím really in no big hurry to get this built due to winter coming
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

Onceler wrote:
Hmmm, maybe I can heat them in a oven several times. Say like to 300 degrees and check again. Iím really in no big hurry to get this built due to winter coming

And before you know it. The spring driving season will be upon you. I'm not saying hurry up. But work through the cold winter months. And be ready for spring.
I started a build at XMas two years ago. I didn't get the build completed in time for the spring driving season.
Just sayin!

Good Luck
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

they should be heet cycled under load....as in torqued.
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Onceler
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

Ok, so RWK was kind enough to send me torque plates he made (side note: RWK is the man if you need machine work done)
So I torqued a cylinder to 18 ft/lbs. and put it and a piston in the oven to 450 degrees F. Afterward, I measured the bore, the oor didnít change, but the overall size increased by 0.15. When I measured the piston, the skirt grew by 0.25 Shocked
I found this interesting, but assume the piston never really heats up to this temp. Otherwise Iíd imagine weíd see a lot of stuck motors.
Anyway, Iím planning on having the cylinders honed back to round using the torque plates and hopefully a more ideal surface finish. Planning on using total seal rings.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 94ís oor Reply with quote

0.01mm seems like an incredibly close tolerance for Out Of Round. I have nothing else to add. Good luck.
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