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KGCoupe Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 3580 Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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A hearty Congratulations", and also "Welcome to the Karmann Ghia Owner's Club"!
I'm sorry to hear that your (presumably) long distance vintage automobile purchase didn't work out exactly as you had planned/hoped.
I know that you mentioned above you preferred to stay on the topic of your mystery noise, but I'd like to comment on your disappointment with the poor quality paint job if I may.
Speaking from my own experience, I know that the excitement of finally making the dream of Karmann Ghia ownership a reality "clouded" my vision to the point where normally obvious flaws became invisible to me even though the seller did provide ample photos of the prospective car prior to the sale.
Later when the Ghia was delivered and I noticed several areas which were somewhat disappointing, I looked back at the photos sent prior to the sale and was surprised to see those same flaws clearly captured when I knew what to look for.
In my case, the "disappointing" areas were minor in the "Grand Scheme" of Karmann Ghia Ownership and I was able to quickly change my focus on all the things that were "right" about my newly acquired car.
While I did (... and still do) feel that I probably paid too much at the time (2005), the ever so slowly rising Karmann Ghia values may have finally caught up ... but it doesn't really matter as I have no current plans of ever selling.
The cost of a complete high quality paint job is certainly a substantial amount, but the rust repairs necessary on the vast majority of surviving Karmann Ghias can rival (and often exceed) that cost.
If indeed those rust repairs were performed correctly on your new Karmann Ghia, that's a huge positive thing in your favor.
I encourage you to try and stay focused on whatever "Good" you can find on your new Ghia, and it sounds like you are already trying to do so.
I'd also encourage you to drive that new Karmann Ghia Cabriolet top down as often as your local weather will allow, and unless your heart is made of stone I suspect that any remaining buyer's remorse will likely fade away.
As djkeev has already pointed out, it is quite possible to correct a multitude of bad painting techniques such as orange peel and runs through the wet sanding process.
If you're not comfortable with trying something like that yourself, any reputable local body shop (or perhaps even a very talented auto detailer) should be able to help you out.
Anyway, Congratulations again and welcome to the club.
EDIT: I see by the additional photos you posted as I was composing my own response that you are indeed dealing with several issues that no amount of wet sanding can correct.
It's good to see that you are trying to remain positive about the acquisition, and that you've already begun to make plans to move forward with a "proper" restoration.
Although you are apparently far from being done spending money on this project, the "Good News" is that the values of Karmann Ghias in general - and Karmann Ghia Cabriolets in particular - appear to be rising much more quickly these days.
Barring any drastic change in the current world economy, it's quite likely that ultimately in time you'll find that you didn't pay too much for your car, ... you just paid it too early. |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3031 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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Thank you KGCoupe.
Very nicely composed. I appreciate the warm remarks from all of you. And yes, I will not get that exciting first top down drive this summer (I'm in Vermont), but I have a lot to look forward to next spring.
I enjoyed reading about your acquisition experience. I also plan to keep this car as long as I'm able, so I want it to look great. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12848 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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YIKES! Forget bad feedback, that's thoroughly worth an assault charge... Maybe two. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3031 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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djkeev wrote: |
The rear tin, the breast plate, removes quite easily. Just a few screws hold it in.
Not knowing the completeness or originality of your engine tin, there may be an upper pulley protector (often removes and tossed aside) cooling hoses to the fan shroud, Flexible hose to the air cleaner and carburetor preheat pipe tins.
Once the breast plate is removed access To the pulley and the rear pulley tin will increase dramatically.
DAVE |
I spent most of my morning getting very acquainted with the engine tins. Let's call it Engine Tin 101!! It is the front tin for sure that is just barely rubbing. No matter how I tried, I could not encourage that tin in Front of the pulley to back off. I must have taken it apart and put it back together 4 or 5 times trying to adjust the tins a little this way and a little that way. Then I crawled under the car and found that the upper left oil pump lug (my terminology is probably incorrect) is touching the front tin. (now I know where the oil pump is) .
After all that time, the rubbing is not as bad but not gone all together.
The lugs on the oil pump are all longer than they need to be. Is this normal? So now I'm wondering if the crank shaft pulley can be shimmed? The rubbing is very light.
_________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12848 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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Yes, the studs are too long, that's why I suggested to look behind the tin from underneath. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3031 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
Yes, the studs are too long, that's why I suggested to look behind the tin from underneath. |
Thanks. I did crawl under and do as you said, but didn't understand what I was looking for. At this point, now that I know what's happening and the rubbing is not severe, what do you recommend??
I have more important issues with the car that I should tend to first. Like getting it drive-able, and getting it ready for the body shop.
I'm slowly working my way through a complete tune up, one step at a time as I educate myself on the engine. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12848 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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Marcdeb wrote: |
Thanks. I did crawl under and do as you said, but didn't understand what I was looking for. At this point, now that I know what's happening and the rubbing is not severe, what do you recommend??
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You might be able to loosen the nut & thread the stud further in. Or remove the pulley & tin & cut the studs down or replace them with shorter ones.
Marcdeb wrote: |
I have more important issues with the car that I should tend to first. Like getting it drive-able, and getting it ready for the body shop.
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I would lean on the assclown to make it right before doing anything else.
After that, make it mechanically sound before sending it to get body work done. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3031 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
You might be able to loosen the nut & thread the stud further in. Or remove the pulley & tin & cut the studs down or replace them with shorter ones.
I would lean on the assclown to make it right before doing anything else.
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So far the seller accepts no responsibility. The fact that I'm in Vermont and he's in California doesn't help the situation.
Thank you for the very helpful information. From your comments, I take away that the oil pump studs is not a overly serious at this point. I hope to get the drive-ability of the car assessed in the next few days. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5994 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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Ooof hack work.
That guy fucked you over good. You should return the favor. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32586 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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I'm not sure if there are any legal steps that can be taken. Maybe if you paid by PayPal or Credit Card there might be some purchase warranty policy?
No matter what happens, your attitude seems good, that is a MAJOR plus!!!!
The advice to make it mechanically sound before cosmetically perfect is a very wise statement and excellent advice.
It has already been mentioned to gi drive the snot out of it and I agree.
Fall in love with it first, now the extra expense of body repair will be easier to swallow.
You might even find yourself wanting to do a lot of it yourself.
VW's tend to make mechanics out of their owners.
I would cut off or grind off the offending stud / studs and call it good.
There is step one of your process finished!
The longer studs are often used for thicker high volume oil pumps...... which yours is not.
Keep posting, we will keep helping...... and hopefully stop criticizing the purchase.
As I've mentioned before....... YOU HAVE A GHIA CONVERTIBLE!!!!!! YES!!!
Now, let's set it right.
There is an air cooled member who has older type II's and a Vanagon.
I'll try to dig up his user name, he's a great guy, we met at the Flanders All Air Cooled Show. He comes down to it every year. He may be of great help if you're local to each other.
EDIT:
crukab
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=308
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3031 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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djkeev wrote: |
There is an air cooled member who has older type II's and a Vanagon.
I'll try to dig up his user name, he's a great guy, we met at the Flanders All Air Cooled Show. He comes down to it every year. He may be of great help if you're local to each other.
EDIT:
crukab
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=308
Dave |
Dave,
Thank you so much for the link to crukab. This community is really amazing. Very kind of you to take the time to find his information.
I'm already in love with the car. It's now my baby. Even if It's a baby only a parent can love. It was my plan to be my own mechanic so I can deal with the work. The paint and body repair I will leave to an expert. I restored and maintained a 61 Pontiac 35 yrs ago. I'm rusty but feel confident that I can handle most of the mechanical work on my own, especially with the help available here.
Cutting off the studs sounds like a plan.
I don't think I have any affordable legal steps. But this seller is very well known in the Karmann Ghia world. If he has any honor, he will step up and make this right. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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63 vwnotch Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2002 Posts: 734 Location: Riverside,CA Econo Motors
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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I've been part of this community for a long time and then some, it bothers me that some vagrant here seizes the chance to take advantage of someone.. Even if its half your fault for whatever reason, you're a better man than I, as I would've already called him out on it and forum slammed him into an arm bar..
My thoughts are DO NOT take it to an auto body shop, they are going to open a can of worms you Do Not want to deal with believe me, my suggestion is to color sand it and buff it and call it good.. get the mechanicals sorted out and enjoy it for a few years... if you have the paint he used or the code even better, many shops will shoot it into a rattle can for like $20.. so you can touch up/ blend as needed and color sand _________________ BUS WANTED: 13 window BUS any year considered.. |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12848 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Crank Shaft pulley rubbing on engine tin. |
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63 vwnotch wrote: |
I've been part of this community for a long time and then some, it bothers me that some vagrant here seizes the chance to take advantage of someone.. Even if its half your fault for whatever reason, you're a better man than I, as I would've already called him out on it and forum slammed him into an arm bar..
My thoughts are DO NOT take it to an auto body shop, they are going to open a can of worms you Do Not want to deal with believe me, my suggestion is to color sand it and buff it and call it good.. get the mechanicals sorted out and enjoy it for a few years... if you have the paint he used or the code even better, many shops will shoot it into a rattle can for like $20.. so you can touch up/ blend as needed and color sand |
X2. You could easily double your current investment trying to straighten out it’s ills. Once a body shop opens it up, you’re at a point of no return & they’ll use you like their personal ATM. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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