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Mittens
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 44
Location: Mid Michigan
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 Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:38 pm Post subject: EuroVan questions |
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so I've been lookin' for a EuroVan to replace my aging Jetta and so I can haul kids and shit. the biggest questions are ( and I'm looking at the passenger version)
what the reliability of the motor and automatic trans?
how often am I going to have to replace the timing chain?
where the heck do I find tires that will support the weight?
is this going to give a few years of service life (I put on 180K on my Jetta over 3 years, she's got 270K miles now)
everything else I can do but those are the big ones. I'm not worried about having to fill the tank with 91 / 93 octane, or doing basic maintenance |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:16 am Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| Mittens wrote: |
so I've been lookin' for a EuroVan to replace my aging Jetta and so I can haul kids and shit. the biggest questions are ( and I'm looking at the passenger version)
what the reliability of the motor and automatic trans?
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Engines are generally robust. The 01P is an overtaxed 01M, and its longevity is affected by mileage and abuse. High mileage vans with unknown service history, or undocumented "transmission was rebuilt" claims should be assessed critically. Do your research.
| Mittens wrote: |
how often am I going to have to replace the timing chain?
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Once. The second time you have to replace it, you will either sell the vehicle or drive it into a bridge abutment.
| Mittens wrote: |
where the heck do I find tires that will support the weight?
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Online. Nokian's are an affordable option; Geolanders are a bit more expensive. There are some other options out there, but look into a tire with a load rating of 100 or higher.
| Mittens wrote: |
is this going to give a few years of service life (I put on 180K on my Jetta over 3 years, she's got 270K miles now)
everything else I can do but those are the big ones. I'm not worried about having to fill the tank with 91 / 93 octane, or doing basic maintenance |
If you expect to put 30k miles per year on a 180k used Eurovan, be prepared to spend money replacing shocks, suspension bushings/ball joints/tie-rods, steering rack and pump; and, of course, if the timing chain hasn't yet been replaced, the quote from the repair shop might induce some alarm if you're on a budget. In a nutshell, look at the premium asked from folks selling low-mile Eurovans compared to high-mile Eurovans...you will reasonably pay that difference (and then some) for future maintenance/repairs on the cheaper van (i.e. there is no such thing as a cheap Eurovan...).
_________________
| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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Joshwa
Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2015
Posts: 810
Location: North Seattle WA
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jjvincent
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016
Posts: 1268
Location: Bethlehem, PA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:04 am Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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A few other things. Every van you look at will be 16+ years old. So understand that because a few things:
1. Coolant system parts. Most of these are lasting 16-18 years, so unless things like the thermostat housing, crack pipe, main hoses and radiator have been changed, they will be on their last leg.
2. Wires that go to the front doors. By this time they will break and you'll have various things not work (windows, locks, mirrors).
3. For tires, it's best to have one with 16" wheels as those tries are the easiest to get. 15" is becoming more difficult and thus more expensive.
4. The weight. If you are doing 30K/year, remember you will wear out tires quicker than on a Jetta. Weight wears out tires faster.
5. Be prepared for NLA parts. Interior and some exterior. Even some of the other mechanical parts are becoming more difficult to get. That's because the US market was mostly VR6's with automatics as opposed to diesels with a manual for Europe.
6. Keys. If it has an immobilizer you should get three of those keys plus two of the side glove box (on later models). Many people by today have misplaced two of the immobilizer keys and thus you buy it and find it's not cheap to get a replacement.
7. If it has an airbag, it'll have a clockspring. These vans are getting to the point where they are wearing out. If you are lucky enough to find a used one then it's great. If not, $500 for a new one. |
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swsl
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| jjvincent wrote: |
7. If it has an airbag, it'll have a clockspring. These vans are getting to the point where they are wearing out. If you are lucky enough to find a used one then it's great. If not, $500 for a new one. |
2002 and 2003 require the clockspring with steering sensor. NLA as of this summer. It was expensive. Now it's unavailable at any price new. Looking for a used one myself.
Perhaps 2001 is the ideal model year as it also has the 24V VR6 but takes the cheaper (only $200 !) clock spring that is still easy to find new.
Thing is, for certain uses, there's nothing else like these. The size vs interior space, the handling, the "cockpit" the headroom with a poptop. For somebody who is well served by the MV Weekender, no other van conversion compares to what Westfalia did. Like the difference in quality between a trailer and an airline cabin.
For just hauling kids and stuff, it's harder to recommend an EV due to the age, higher level of maintenance and higher cost to buy, all of the above mentioned. There are so many vehicles that will haul kids and gear pretty well. And these are not big on fuel economy. And require premium gas.
Yet even for kid hauling, and even with the downsides, there is a lot to love in these vans and how cleverly they function.
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2002 EV WK |
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Broseph Stalin
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2018
Posts: 433
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| swsl wrote: |
| jjvincent wrote: |
7. If it has an airbag, it'll have a clockspring. These vans are getting to the point where they are wearing out. If you are lucky enough to find a used one then it's great. If not, $500 for a new one. |
2002 and 2003 require the clockspring with steering sensor. NLA as of this summer. It was expensive. Now it's unavailable at any price new. Looking for a used one myself.
Perhaps 2001 is the ideal model year as it also has the 24V VR6 but takes the cheaper (only $200 !) clock spring that is still easy to find new.
Thing is, for certain uses, there's nothing else like these. The size vs interior space, the handling, the "cockpit" the headroom with a poptop. For somebody who is well served by the MV Weekender, no other van conversion compares to what Westfalia did. Like the difference in quality between a trailer and an airline cabin.
For just hauling kids and stuff, it's harder to recommend an EV due to the age, higher level of maintenance and higher cost to buy, all of the above mentioned. There are so many vehicles that will haul kids and gear pretty well. And these are not big on fuel economy. And require premium gas.
Yet even for kid hauling, and even with the downsides, there is a lot to love in these vans and how cleverly they function. |
Well damn, so the clockspring is NLA for the '03. I'm still considering an "immobilizer defeat" ECU jiggery. Maybe the clockspring doesn't matter if that is done?
Also, still considering ordering some Eurovan-specific emission control parts. I bought the '03 MAF assembly while the getting is good after reading the 12v VR6 had a bunch of NLA's.
It certainly is a superb camping vehicle, I'd like to hang onto it.
_________________
'68 Bus in West Germany, 1977-1979
'67 Riviera poptop conversion in the US, 1984-1990
'95 EVC Winnie, 2018, Sold
'03 EVC Winnie, 2018, Sold |
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swsl
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:30 am Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| Broseph Stalin wrote: |
I'm still considering an "immobilizer defeat" ECU jiggery. Maybe the clockspring doesn't matter if that is done?
Also, still considering ordering some Eurovan-specific emission control parts. I bought the '03 MAF assembly while the getting is good after reading the 12v VR6 had a bunch of NLA's.
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The horn won't work without the clockspring. If I don't find a used one soon, I'm thinking that perhaps I can just install the 2001 part in my 2002. Then the only issue might be the steering angle sensor, which is tied to the traction control, whatever it's called.
Good idea on the MAF. Don't know if they failed much on later models, but a very important sensor.
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2002 EV WK |
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jjvincent
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016
Posts: 1268
Location: Bethlehem, PA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| I'm still considering an "immobilizer defeat" ECU jiggery |
Why? I hear this from people that want to eliminate the immobilizer yet if they failed all of the time, there should be like 100 posts on it. Same for most other VAG products that have immobilizers. I just never understand the fascination to spend money to eliminate it when there are many other things that would make sense. It sounds like old timers that are afraid of electronics and then just want to get rid of it. |
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d_walküre
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Tulsa, OK
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:37 am Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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I had heard that the '01--'03 vans were identical, but is this clockspring an actual difference? Any other differences?
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Broseph Stalin
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2018
Posts: 433
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| jjvincent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm still considering an "immobilizer defeat" ECU jiggery |
Why? I hear this from people that want to eliminate the immobilizer yet if they failed all of the time, there should be like 100 posts on it. Same for most other VAG products that have immobilizers. I just never understand the fascination to spend money to eliminate it when there are many other things that would make sense. It sounds like old timers that are afraid of electronics and then just want to get rid of it. |
I read about quite a few immobilizer problems with VAG products on VWVortex. I don't need it, I don't want it.
The problem to me is with a low battery the ECU immobilizer will kick in. Had it happen to me. The battery was strong enough to start the engine REPEATEDLY, but the engine would run for one second then die. A common problem.
Yeah, yeah, I carry a jump pack always, but there is another point of failure. There is a 'reader ring' near the ignition switch, I've read of those failing also, and again the ECU will kill the engine. I'd rather disable the immobilizer function than risk a problem way out in the boonies. Again, I don't need it and don't want it.
_________________
'68 Bus in West Germany, 1977-1979
'67 Riviera poptop conversion in the US, 1984-1990
'95 EVC Winnie, 2018, Sold
'03 EVC Winnie, 2018, Sold |
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jimbomitch
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2019
Posts: 89
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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I installed the same tires on my 2000 GLS about 2 years ago too and am happy with them. |
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jjvincent
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016
Posts: 1268
Location: Bethlehem, PA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:53 am Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| Broseph Stalin wrote: |
| jjvincent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm still considering an "immobilizer defeat" ECU jiggery |
Why? I hear this from people that want to eliminate the immobilizer yet if they failed all of the time, there should be like 100 posts on it. Same for most other VAG products that have immobilizers. I just never understand the fascination to spend money to eliminate it when there are many other things that would make sense. It sounds like old timers that are afraid of electronics and then just want to get rid of it. |
I read about quite a few immobilizer problems with VAG products on VWVortex. I don't need it, I don't want it.
The problem to me is with a low battery the ECU immobilizer will kick in. Had it happen to me. The battery was strong enough to start the engine REPEATEDLY, but the engine would run for one second then die. A common problem.
Yeah, yeah, I carry a jump pack always, but there is another point of failure. There is a 'reader ring' near the ignition switch, I've read of those failing also, and again the ECU will kill the engine. I'd rather disable the immobilizer function than risk a problem way out in the boonies. Again, I don't need it and don't want it. |
I never realized it was a problem. Typically on forums, when there is a common problem, there are tons of posts about it. For example, there are lots of posts when it comes to transmissions and timing chains. So that tells me that those are common problems.
For my EV, when the battery is weak, the immobilizer blocks the start, so I buy a new battery (this has happened twice to me in 16 years of ownership and both times the van did start and stay running). In the end, it seems like an extreme fix for something that is reliable and maybe blocks the start once in a while.
It's like when people will buy a overly priced aluminum thermostat housing because the last one made it 250K miles and over 15 years. Instead of replacing it with the cheap plastic one that will make it another 250K and 15 more years (how many 500K mile 30 year old vans do you know of) they go the extreme route. Plus, the reality is, the engine will be wore out by then and the transmission on it's last leg if the owner even keeps it that long. |
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Broseph Stalin
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2018
Posts: 433
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| jjvincent wrote: |
| Broseph Stalin wrote: |
| jjvincent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm still considering an "immobilizer defeat" ECU jiggery |
Why? I hear this from people that want to eliminate the immobilizer yet if they failed all of the time, there should be like 100 posts on it. Same for most other VAG products that have immobilizers. I just never understand the fascination to spend money to eliminate it when there are many other things that would make sense. It sounds like old timers that are afraid of electronics and then just want to get rid of it. |
I read about quite a few immobilizer problems with VAG products on VWVortex. I don't need it, I don't want it.
The problem to me is with a low battery the ECU immobilizer will kick in. Had it happen to me. The battery was strong enough to start the engine REPEATEDLY, but the engine would run for one second then die. A common problem.
Yeah, yeah, I carry a jump pack always, but there is another point of failure. There is a 'reader ring' near the ignition switch, I've read of those failing also, and again the ECU will kill the engine. I'd rather disable the immobilizer function than risk a problem way out in the boonies. Again, I don't need it and don't want it. |
I never realized it was a problem. Typically on forums, when there is a common problem, there are tons of posts about it. For example, there are lots of posts when it comes to transmissions and timing chains. So that tells me that those are common problems.
For my EV, when the battery is weak, the immobilizer blocks the start, so I buy a new battery (this has happened twice to me in 16 years of ownership and both times the van did start and stay running). In the end, it seems like an extreme fix for something that is reliable and maybe blocks the start once in a while.
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The problem maybe hasn't been mentioned much on EV forums because there's little traffic, but Google it and it pops up on other VAG forums. I started this thread last year https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=709714&highlight=
There's too many potential points of failure with the immobilizer. A weak starter battery is the least of them. There's the reader ring in the steering column (and the associated circuitry), the chipped key.
My thinking is I want this immobilizer GONE! If I'm 180 miles away from a VW repair shop - which is common in the West - and most of them either don't know jackshit about Eurovans or refuse to work on them (seems to be a problem with EVC's in particular), I want to eliminate points of failure beforehand.
United Motorsports has done the immobilizer defeat often, wish I could find a local shop that would do it.
_________________
'68 Bus in West Germany, 1977-1979
'67 Riviera poptop conversion in the US, 1984-1990
'95 EVC Winnie, 2018, Sold
'03 EVC Winnie, 2018, Sold |
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swsl
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:54 am Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| I had heard that the '01--'03 vans were identical, but is this clockspring an actual difference? Any other differences? |
I thought I had seen this to be the case when looking for mine. But I was wrong. Best I can tell all the MV and GLS versions have ESP. The EVC and the Rialtas dont' and are thus blessed with an avaiable clockspring at an affordable (only $200 !!) price.
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2002 EV WK |
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Broseph Stalin
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2018
Posts: 433
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| swsl wrote: |
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| I had heard that the '01--'03 vans were identical, but is this clockspring an actual difference? Any other differences? |
I thought I had seen this to be the case when looking for mine. But I was wrong. Best I can tell all the MV and GLS versions have ESP. The EVC and the Rialtas dont' and are thus blessed with an avaiable clockspring at an affordable (only $200 !!) price. |
Good to know about the EVC clockspring. That's something I like about it, doesn't have the full suite ESP, only the traction control (EDL - Electronic Differential Lock, ABS-activated). However some shops won't allow an EVC in their shop.
I was getting parts at a VW dealer, asked a service writer why they won't work on EVC's, he said because of the propane tank. Said they'll work on EV's if they don't have the LP tank. An independent VW shop I called for an oil change said, "Won't even touch 'em, bud."
_________________
'68 Bus in West Germany, 1977-1979
'67 Riviera poptop conversion in the US, 1984-1990
'95 EVC Winnie, 2018, Sold
'03 EVC Winnie, 2018, Sold |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2010
Posts: 297
Location: Amesbury, MA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| swsl wrote: |
| jjvincent wrote: |
7. If it has an airbag, it'll have a clockspring. These vans are getting to the point where they are wearing out. If you are lucky enough to find a used one then it's great. If not, $500 for a new one. |
2002 and 2003 require the clockspring with steering sensor. NLA as of this summer. It was expensive. Now it's unavailable at any price new. Looking for a used one myself.
Perhaps 2001 is the ideal model year as it also has the 24V VR6 but takes the cheaper (only $200 !) clock spring that is still easy to find new. |
So what is this $200.00 clockspring? whats the number, I have a 2001 and assumed I had to by the NLA one..
If there truly is one let me know
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2001 eurovn weekender 207k fresh batteries |
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swsl
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2017
Posts: 94
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:44 am Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
So what is this $200.00 clockspring? whats the number, I have a 2001 and assumed I had to by the NLA one..
If there truly is one let me know |
I didn't have the answer at hand, so I had to search for you: "2001 vw eurovan clockspring"
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/vw-air-bag-clockspring-eurovan-vag-7d0959653#fitment
I dunno, maybe this is wrong, but FCPEuro is pretty reliable.
Fitment: Volkswagen EuroVan
1999 Volkswagen EuroVan Air Bag Clockspring
2000 Volkswagen EuroVan Air Bag Clockspring
2001 Volkswagen EuroVan Air Bag Clockspring
2002 Volkswagen EuroVan Air Bag Clockspring
w/o steering sensor
2003 Volkswagen EuroVan Air Bag Clockspring
w/o steering sensor
Another one:
https://www.vwpartscenter.net/oem-parts/volkswagen...s9MQ%3D%3D
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2002 EV WK |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:17 am Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| Quote: |
| Typically on forums, when there is a common problem, there are tons of posts about it. For example, there are lots of posts when it comes to transmissions and timing chains. So that tells me that those are common problems. |
Less than 2% of VW peeps in T4 post here.
Your data tells you people with problems , post here, nothing more than that.
We’ve got 33 in our local T4 group , all with well maintained, well performing O1Ps
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.ssS! |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: EuroVan questions |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Typically on forums, when there is a common problem, there are tons of posts about it. For example, there are lots of posts when it comes to transmissions and timing chains. So that tells me that those are common problems. |
Less than 2% of VW peeps in T4 post here.
Your data tells you people with problems , post here, nothing more than that.
We’ve got 33 in our local T4 group , all with well maintained, well performing O1Ps |
Every time you post about your local T4 group, I'm gonna repost this little gem:
At any given time, around 30% of the automatic EVs for sale on the Samba have rebuilt or replaced transmissions, or transmission issues declared in the ad.
_________________
| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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