No spark on my 1776DP

[ozzmonaut]

I know there are plenty of threads for this. But everybody seems to have resolved their situation when a loose wire was found or something like that.

My situation is a little different. I purchased a nice running 1776 that I personally started on the owners stand and took home to put on my stand. The engine has been sitting in the corner for several months while I fix up the 61 SC this is going in. I did have the heads off to replace pushrod tubes and seals. But nothing crazy, and I have checked valve clearances multiple times since then.
Time to start it up...nothing. No spark from the coil wire going into the 009. Replaced the wire with a few different ones that were around. Beru coil tested good, but I had a new spare Beru laying around. Threw it on and still nothing. Thought the battery might have a bad cell. Grabbed the battery out of my daily driver bus. Still nothing. Maybe it's the pertronix ignitor not signaling the coil, even though it seems to be? Threw the ignitor out of the dist in my other bus in... nothing.

Now I am stumped. Still no fire from the coil wire to the distributor. The wires from the switch to the coil, battery, starter, all ohm good. I can't find anything grounding out. And it is on the stand so it's not like I have a wire issue hidden. Any ideas?

[modok]

The ignitor needs to be grounded, through the screw, through the distributor body, then through the clamp and/or distributor contact with the case.
Rarely is that a problem, but, might be worth wiggling everything. or re-thinking the anodized clamp

I prefer to test the ignitor and coil by physically rotating the distributor, with it pulled up a half inch so not engaged. You can take the clamp loose from the case and not lose the timing adjustment.

if it works in the run position then the next suspect would be that the ignition switch is not sending power while cranking.

[ozzmonaut]

For what it's worth, the voltage is testing at 9-11.5 at the positive side of the coil while cranking. The negative side is testing up and down between 0 and around 11.9 while cranking, but it moves quick so hard to pin down exact numbers on this.

I did switch from a generator to alternator, but took the exciting wire off for test firing to eliminate the alt as the issue.

I don't think the coil to dist wire is getting any spark at all. If it is, it is too weak to see.

[modok]

Voltage readings about normal..
perhaps the coil.

for spark testing like that I'd take an old spark plug and remove the ground strap----ta da, spark tester
connect to coil with a spark plug wire. That is if you can't get your buddy to, ah, hold onto the wire for you.

[Dale M.]

On Ignitor you can use a test lamp to see if it is functioning by hooking one side of test lamp to coil negative (-) and other side of test lamp to ground, it should flash off and on as distribuitor turns and switched Ignitor off/on...

Could be your new best friend...

Also what are the measured numbers of your coil...

IF engine case is grounded back to battery and test lamp show distribuitor is switching ground to coil, and coil measures good, its probably a timing issue.... Or loose ignition wire issue...

Also is engine getting fuel?

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[ozzmonaut]

Definitely getting fuel. Tried a plug wire and plug from the coil to ground. Still no spark. Also pulled the ignitor and went back to points. Still no spark. Still getting good voltage to the coil from the switch. I would not think timing is the cause. If no spark comes from the coil (3 different coils which all test good, 2 of which came off of running engines), then no spark will go into the distributor cap, so changing timing at this point, in my mind, would just be sending no spark at a different time, LOL.

[ozzmonaut]

Just to be sure the ignition switch wasn't part of the issue, I took it out of the equation and just put the appropriate wires together. Still no spark on any of the coils. Admittedly I don't know a ton about starters. I noticed that the solenoid plug ohms to ground. The starter rebuild shop here in town assures me that this is normal. It seems a bit counter-intuitive that the positive feed would at any time be grounded out.

Either way, power is getting from the battery to the starter, battery to solenoid, battery to coil ignition, and my points are opening and closing to cause the coil to charge and discharge. Coils all test good on primary and secondary. Secondary resistance is a bit lower than the listed readings, but these coils all work fine on my other bus. By all accounts, this should provide a bright blue spark when the coil wire is removed from the distributor cap and touched to metal while cranking. I am lost. This is broken down into its simplest form, and I have never had this much trouble getting a vw to start.

[Dale M.]

[ozzmonaut]

The carbon button is there. At this point, the lobes on the distributor shaft are opening and closing the points. This should at least let the coil fire. The cap and dist are good. But even if they weren't , the coil should still get fire.

[madmike]

I've had dirty point do this same thing 'no spark' took a little brake clean to them and got the spark
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[ozzmonaut]

Put in a new set of points and condenser as well.

If there is voltage getting to the positive side of the coil, and voltage being added and removed on the negative side, these coils should fire, regardless of any other condition. Does that sound correct?

The part that is baffling me is that the coils work fine in my other bus. The voltage readings are the same on the positive and negative sides of the coil during cranking on either motor. But one lets the coil fire and one does not. I cannot find any other variables in which the condition differs at all between the 1600sp in my bus, and the 1776dp in this truck. At this point the bus still has the pertronix, and the 1776 has points. But the voltage at the negative side of the coil still varies up and down as I am cranking.

[rayjay]

The rotor button IS actually turning when you hit the start button ???? Just grasping at straws here.

[ozzmonaut]

Yes. The distributor shaft is turning, opening and closing the points, adding then removing the voltage at the negative side of the coil.

[VW_Jimbo]

I just read through this and keep having a thought. You do have the negative side of the battery attached, directly, to the engine case - right?

And you checked the voltage drop on it. Right?
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[ozzmonaut]

Negative post of the battery is connected to the case via the bolt holding the engine to the trans bellhousing. Definitely getting slight voltage drop during cranking, but this battery is out of my 69 bus and starts that one up the first time every time.

[ozzmonaut]

I have 13.2v at the positive side of the coil, which drops to about 11v during cranking. I think around 8v is required to fire. At the negative side of the coil during cranking, the voltage ranges 0-11v as the points open and close. I am not even getting a dull or weak spark. I am just getting NO spark. I thought it was the coil/dist wire at first, but now I have tried several of those as well. And the first one ohmed good anyways.

[Dale M.]

Is coil polarity correct?....

What ever you are doing (which may be wrong) you are repeating same mistake with every iteration of a fix.... Time to step back a review the whole process.... Kettering ignition is basically so simple...

(Image stolen off Google Images)

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[rayjay]

I used to test unknown condition GM HEI distributors by clamping the shank of the dist housing in the vise on my fab table and then layout the sparkplugs on the bare steel upper surface of the table and with jumpers hook the negative from a 12v batt to the table and the positive post on the batt to the + post on the dist cap. Then turn the dist drive gear and zap zap zap would go the sparkplugs. On the HEI you don't even have to spin it fast to get sparks.

You should do the same with your dist. Take the whole thing [ cap, wires and all ] out of the engine and set it up in a vise so you can power it from a separate battery. You might have to run a ground wire to each spark plug but it's not that big of a deal. Once you get it sparking on the bench away from the voodoo car then reinstall and go from there. It has to be something basic but I have no idea. Broken wire in the harness or bare wire touching the dist body or ????

[ozzmonaut]

In the illustration, there is a wire going from the body of the coil to ground. Is that correct? Never seen a coil with the body grounded. The only difference I notice is that there is a wire on my 69 bus that goes to the negative side of the coil but does not come from the distributor. Regrettably, I do not know where this wire goes, but it is from the original harness. It is black so possibly goes to ground? Seems like a lot of extra trouble to get to ground when there is ground all over the engine compartment. And the wire is not identified on any diagrams.

[ozzmonaut]

That extra wire is probably for the tach. It looked like it ran into the harness, but maybe not.