Heater Showdown - Propex, Chinese diesel heater, Espar, Buddy

[vanis13]

re filling a remote fuel tank....be in inside or under the fender

https://www.amazon.com/Hangar-9-Manual-Fuel-Pump/d...8883532737

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83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace

www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make

[erste]

[ragnarhairybreeks]

Erste,

I’m not completely clear on the kerosene question. As far as I can see there is no one kerosene. And I’m leaving jet fuel kerosene aside for this.

It’s “seems” it’s the amount of sulfur in the kerosene that’s important. Low sulfur kerosene , and I’ve seen some kerosene advertised as low sulfur ( I guess that’s a plus in lanterns etc), supposedly has less lubricity.

I suspect it’s not much of an issue if you mix a bit of diesel in with any store bought kerosene, but that’s just complete speculation

Alistair
_________________
'86 7 passenger syncro, converted to westy pop top, project still in progress
'82 westy, diesel converted to gas in '94, now gone...
https://shufti.blog/
Old address still works...
http://shufti.wordpress.com

[shagginwagon83]

Looks like my ebay heater is going to be here by Saturday. Faster than Prime. Plus cheaper. Thanks for the recommendation Jael.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[T3messie]

[ragnarhairybreeks]

[T3messie]

Cut only if you want to and the pump is broken.
A quick search for a spare parts list shows there are no differences in the kind of fuel for the pumps available at eberspächer.


I run my kerosene .
[/url]https://standheizung-ersatzteile.com/media/pdf/airtronic-b5-ersatzteilliste.pdf[url]

[Syncro Jael]

I made this clip to show how the Chinese Diesel Heater works. It is connected to the AfterBurner Controller and using WiFi to show the controls. Everything can be set, adjusted, and controlled on this screen. This is using my iPhone. But Android works also. That is nice because I can use my Garmin Overlander (on the dash) to control the heater also. The desired temp is set at 72°f and has a 2° swing on both sides. (GREEN) You can watch it ramp up then down by the desired setting. You can also set the air fuel ratio and have the low end hotter if it is really cold. This keeps the unit from ramping up and down as often.

This is at 1000% speed. Boring I know, but it shows how fast it can heat up the van. This is a 5kw heater. Ambient temps were just above 50°f. This is in a vanagon with a NAHT top.
The thermo sensor is just in front of the hanging locker. The outlet for the hot air is on the floor pointing towards the front seats.

Sorry that zooming in made it not as clear but it gives you an idea of what these little heaters do. Pay attention to all the gauges. It shows rate of fuel used, total fuel used, glow plug amperage and voltage. Battery voltage. RPM, pump hertz.


Link


AfterBurner Facebook group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/388958075385659/40...up_comment
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1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[BFB]

can these units run while driving? or will driving cause more of a draw on the exhaust pipe and affect the flame?

[Syncro Jael]

[tristessa]

Ran mine when driving more than a few times last winter, no issues. Combustion intake is in a protected area, exhaust makes sort of an "s" curve so I could fit a muffler aiming outward just ahead of the driver side rear wheel.

Going to be playing with incorporating a TDI EGR cooler into the exhaust and tying it into engine coolant system with an electric pump to try and recover some of the the waste heat. I'll probably use a relay triggered by the diesel heater's fan circuit to run the pump.

[beach_creature]

[jimf909]

[Syncro Jael]

[kguarnotta]

Wow - a LOT of info on this thread. Thanks.

I've just gotten a pop-top '86 syncro weekender. The rear heater has been removed. I'm looking at adding some heat - for driving around and also for cold weather/winter camping.

So - putting the original heater back in would help when driving around, but not when camped/parking. I've read (correct me if I'm wrong) I can use one of these other heaters (Propex, Webasto, or cheap chinese heater) while driving.

I have no interest in Mr. Buddy - tried one once, and not for me.

My syncro came with an uninstalled propane tank - which I could mount underneath, and then add a propane heater (ala propex). I believe it is a 5.9 gallon tank. I don't like the idea of relying on the propane tank - as I fear it running out when I need it. Then again, maybe 5.9 gallons would last me through a winter?

OR I could go with Webasto - and just tap off the existing fuel lines (seems simper to me).

OF go with one of those diesel options - but then need to add an auxiliary tank. Does the tank need to be mounted higher than the heater for it to work properly?

How much heat do the original heaters put out - and is it worth it to do both or should I just go with one of the auxilary heaters? I would like to be able to control the heat to some extent from the front while driving - so I can turn it up or down, depending on kids and mine comfort level.

Sorry - if this is a bit of a ramble, but sort of a thinking out loud. I had not thought at all about a diesel option - until I hear the reports from Syncro Jael...
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-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper

[Vanlife Geek]

I have the Propex HS-2800 installed under my rear seat and vents out next to the stock rear heater, which caused the need for a custom vent cover solution. I have been very happy with it for the most part. I sure wish there was a way to tell how much propane is left in my tank, but that's just the way it is, I guess. Sometimes I feel bad when I have it topped off and only needed 1/2 gallon, but better safe than sorry, especially on a winter camp. I often camp at high altitudes in Colorado and have never experienced any altitude issues with the heater.

The main issue I have is with the thermostat. When I'm winter camping I can stay toasty sleeping in my -20 down bag, but would like to keep the van above 32 degrees to keep the water tank and other stuff from freezing overnight. At the lowest setting, it keeps the van at around 50ish degrees, which is warmer than I need for sleeping and if I'm out for a couple of weeks, I worry about running out of propane. Does anyone know of any hacks to adjust the standard thermostat to maintain a lower temperature, or do i need to spend the $80 to get the Propex digital thermostat (Van Cafe/RMW has them, so I can pick it up locally), which I assume would solve the issue, but may require a new wiring harness. Does anyone have any experience with the Propex digital thermostat version?

As a few side notes, I also have the Franchers pop-top insulation and a set of GW window thermal panels. Both help if the heater is on and allows for fewer heater cycles, but without a supplemental heat source, the inside of the van will drop to the same temp as outside by morning. I do prefer to sleep up top regardless of the weather, unless I have to lower the top in extreme conditions.

Additionally, I have a portable wood stove that I use when I attach my ARB 3-wall tent to my awning, which works great to heat both the tent and the van with the sliding door open. The main negative to the wood stove and tent/awning is that winter camping at altitude almost always is accompanied by strong winds, which I've learned my lesson the hard way is not compatible with the awning, especially with the 3 "sails" attached. Fortunately, when everything blew down one night, I didn't have the wood stove going, which would have caused a melted mess. I did have to replace all 4 poles on the awning, but they didn't break the bank.

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Vanlife Geek
Current:
1986 Syncro Westy
Previous:
1983 Westy
1981 Westy
1972 Bug (Last year you could buy a new one for under $2,000)
1965/66 Bug (2 bugs from a junk yard combined to make 1 functional bug)
1959 Bug (Pre Gas Gauge Era)

[jimf909]

[westyventures]

[shagginwagon83]

The 4k Chinese diesel is very impressive. I spent $120 on a kit. I rigged it up with wood to act as a test rig. I below hot air into a awning room like above. It was absolutely incredible how hot it was inside that awning room in freezing temperatures. Not only was the performance impressive but the efficiency too! It was running on high for hours on one gallon of gas.

I now have to figure out where I want to put this huge unit. That is one of downside of 4k vs 2k. The 2k has a lot of good places you can put it.

I'm honestly thinking that converting my van to gfci eliminate the circuit breaker. Install heater right next to water tank and output heat through circuit breaker.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[Phishman068]

I recently installed a Webasto Airtop 2000 STC which I purchased from Heatso.com
It's a genuine webasto heater, but it's a Russian model (the exact same, just the instructions are in Russian and the warranty support isn't relevant from the manufacturer outside of Russia). I installed it below my Truck Fridge on my Syncro, and its ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE.

First off, it runs off a fuel I already have plenty of with me and with propane tanks in westfalias getting harder and harder to fill these days (in my experience), this is fantastic. It sips electricity (uses about the same as the fridge) and does such an incredible job of keeping the bus warm. I spent 9 nights continuously on a trip to the catskill mountains and I was never anything other then fantastically comfortable.

I am running the muffler, and have absolutely no concerns of soot (as documented in a very small isolated set of inexperienced installers on the internet) after finding a local shop that sells, services, and installs Webasto heaters and insists that the 300 gasoline models they installed last year with mufflers, have no problems- they've never had a problem at all and run the muffler on all of them.
Another key "upgrade" was the two right angled fuel lines that are used to hook the fuel in and out of the webasto fuel pump. These factory (option) pieces, combined with a rubber isolator separating the fuel pump from the body made the pump go from LOUD (woke me up the first night I tested it) to a level I legitimately cannot hear. Even with my ear under the car with the pump running, I can no longer hear the fuel pump- it's FANTASTIC.

The overall sound of the heater (inside the vehicle) is a delightful "white noise" fan blowing quietly and the heater ramps up and down on the heat as needed without necessarily cycling the fan on or off- just a continuous "LOW" setting- which is fantastic! The car stays so nice and warm!

I think the fact that people in the US are terrified by the Gasoline heater is hilarious. These gas heaters have been used in vehicles, from these companies, for 80 years and brand new Webasto 2000STL units are installed in everything from school busses to modern RVs, and they're known for their reliability. I can't find a single instance of one of these actually giving any kind of "dangerous" performance....yet everyone is terrified of them.
The way they actually work is quite cool, and it's got a ton of redundancies in it to keep it from firing if there's a fault at all.

So far, I am VERY impressed with this heater, and wouldn't do it any other way!
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559766&highlight=winter+rust
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482402&highlight=sunroof+syncro
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569774
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6864936#6864936

"Along with the ability to go fast, one looses the desire to hurry."