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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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theastronaut Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2007 Posts: 1629 Location: Anderson, SC
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Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:27 am Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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They don't even use 100% gasoline in Brazil and their ethanol content has been as high as 25% minimum.
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There are no longer any light vehicles in Brazil running on pure gasoline. Since 1976 the government made it mandatory to blend anhydrous ethanol with gasoline, fluctuating between 10% to 22% and requiring just a minor adjustment on regular gasoline engines. In 1993 the mandatory blend was fixed by law at 22% anhydrous ethanol (E22) by volume in the entire country, but with leeway to the Executive to set different percentages of ethanol within pre-established boundaries. In 2003 these limits were set at a minimum of 20% and a maximum of 25%. Since July 1, 2007 the mandatory blend is 25% of anhydrous ethanol and 75% gasoline or E25 blend. |
_________________ Strive for perfection in everything. Take the best that exist and make it better. If it doesn't exist, create it. Accept nothing nearly right or good enough."
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:32 am Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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Brazil was set up for that many years ago when they decided not to use any inported gas. It was a big deal all over the VW mags. Their cars were set up for ethanol.
At this point -- run your car regularly or drain the float bowls if your car is sitting or do nothing.
It is up to you.
Kind of like my doctor telling me I have to go for a colonoscopy, I have a choice. I know what can or can not happen if I don't.
I picture the doctor looking down my throat with a flash light saying keep it coming, I don't see it yet. _________________ email: [email protected]
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58 Plastic Tub Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2007 Posts: 416 Location: Nowhere, USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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I don't often join in the fun... but this particular debate seems to ignite the kind of passion in "car guy" circles generally reserved for motor oil and other imponderables. As I've often been told that I feel everybody is entitled to my own opinion, I'll freely share it.
Everybody is aware of ethanol's hygoscopic (affinity for water) tendencies. Everybody knows it's corrosive and dries out rubber. Everybody is also aware (or should be) that E10 fuel is the only thing that's available in many places in this country. I have the happy coincidence of living 5 miles from a station with E0 93 octane, but it's one station in pretty large geographical area. Out west, it's 91 octane E10.
My engine does not really like E0 gas, because I built it for E10. There's more compression than is optimal for pure gasoline, and I'm jetted slightly fatter due to E10s reduced energy content. My carbs (like everybody else's) definitely don't like the alcohol, however. The floats disintegrate every 5 years or so and plug up the transition and idle circuits, etc. I've got a fuel shut off, and use it in the winter-- but shutting it off after every drive and letting the car run out of gas in the float bowls is not something I've made a habit of (yet).
We can whine all we like, but it isn't going to change how gas is sold in 99.99% of the stations in America. It's my contention that this is something we just learn to live with. We're always free to move on to something else. I'm old enough to remember when this country made the switch to unleaded fuel. At the time, you would have thought that the world was coming to an end (we were all going to need valve-guides every 10K mi, etc). In reality, the market adapted, and engines became more reliable than ever imaginable. It's true that carbureted engines will always struggle with ethanol in gas for all the reasons I stated above
... but the fact is, unless your car is going to never get more than 100 miles from your favorite "pure gas" station, you're going to have to deal with it. I wish all gas was "Top Tier" pure gas. But then again, I wish I felt like I did when I was 25 and still know what I know now. We play the cards we've been dealt, not the cards we wish we'd been dealt, or the cards we had 3 hands ago.
E10 isn't going anywhere. We either play the game with these cards, or we play a different game. _________________ Stan Galat
"Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts." |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7599
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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And some people are seriously committed to removing ethanol
Link
_________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Igpoe Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 853 Location: South Boston, VA
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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There is only one reason to have ethanol in your fuel.
THE SALE OF ETHANOL PROVIDES MONEY TO LOBBY CONGRESS TO CONTINUE THE SALES OF ETHANOL. no mechanical advantage exists then or now |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3574 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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Igpoe wrote: |
There is only one reason to have ethanol in your fuel.
THE SALE OF ETHANOL PROVIDES MONEY TO LOBBY CONGRESS TO CONTINUE THE SALES OF ETHANOL. no mechanical advantage exists then or now |
There is only one solution to these kind of problems and it called convention of states, article 5 of the constitution. Dan |
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58 Plastic Tub Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2007 Posts: 416 Location: Nowhere, USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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Igpoe wrote: |
There is only one reason to have ethanol in your fuel.
THE SALE OF ETHANOL PROVIDES MONEY TO LOBBY CONGRESS TO CONTINUE THE SALES OF ETHANOL. no mechanical advantage exists then or now |
That may well be. It's irrelevant. We play the cards we have, not the cards we'd like to have. _________________ Stan Galat
"Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts." |
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ozzmonaut Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2008 Posts: 151 Location: mount airy, NC
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Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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I don't get excited for the debate. But we do have ethanol-free available at a lot of stations here. I always use it in my vw's. It can't hurt, it's 40cents more per gallon. In addition to avoiding E10 related issues, I get way better mileage. I have used ethanol-free in my other vehicles as well, and improved mileage was the only real benefit. With my 80 C10 I got about 15mpg on E10, 18mpg E-free, my 02 Kia gets 32mpg on E10, 36mpg on E-free. I don't know that the extra cost is justified by the few mpg gained, so I generally use E10 in my non VW cars. I just use the ethanol free in the VW's because it is readily available. Also, the pure gas site isn't really kept up to date. It shows 5 stations in my town have it, but there are currently 8 places selling it here. The other towns near me also have more stations that offer it not listed. Smaller stations and many in rural areas offer it due to older tractors being used in the area. These stations also tend to be overlooked on the site. |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Nitramrebrab72 Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018 Posts: 462 Location: France
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Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:18 am Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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I run E85, use a tube end lube in the fuel. Either VP Racing M2 or Liquid Power Top End Lube..The latter is cheaper per gallon protected. If you want just a carb corrosion protector then use Carb Defender by Driven. But the other 2 also lube valve guides seats and cylinders.
E85 is a lot less corrosive than E10/E15 are the worst once you go past E15 the more ethanol the less corrosive it becomes. |
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Nitramrebrab72 Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2018 Posts: 462 Location: France
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Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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Leaving carbs dry will shag the acc pump jet diaphrams. |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5445 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: tests.. ethanol and corrosion - looking for non ethanol gas |
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If I'm putting a VW away for the winter I usually run the last 2 tanks with ethanol free gas and add Stabil before that last fill. There are only 2 stations within 10 miles that sell it, it costs about 50 cents more per gallon, and carb icing is more of an issue with E0.
I did a little reading about testing in other countries with hE15 blend. It seems the common aluminum corrosion issue with alcohol in the gas isn't from water but from the alcohol. Aluminum/alcohol corrosion creates aluminum hydroxide. Aluminum/water corrosion mostly regenerates the protective aluminum oxide layer. It was cheaper to use alcohol with 2% water and it minimized corrosion issues. There are potential water separation issues if blended with E0 gas and subjected to low temperatures. In small amounts water can remain mixed in a gasahol mix. That is a big part of fuel system dryer additives.
My beach buggy will be sporting an aluminum fuel tank when it hits the road again. For that reason I have been thinking about this potential issue. _________________
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As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6008 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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