Steering Coupling Disc 211415417 (coupler)

[wcfvw69]

Nice score!^^


I do find it interesting that the internet or this site can so often describe this part or that part as being unobtanium. I then visit a swap meet and see plenty of them for sale. The seller is usually a retired person that's not computer savvy nor do they want to post parts for sale on the internet.

One part that's fun for me in this hobby is trying to track down a hard to find NOS part that's needed. Thank god for the internet and networking. Rarely do I strike out when looking for something.
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[SGKent]

Richard was selling VW factory pieces at one time - I know because I bought three from him. VW had those parts made in many different factories though, maybe you got different ones. They do get stiffer with age. They should be pliable to bend a little but not compress. That allows them to act a little like a universal joint but they don't compress or stretch when turning.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Richard Davies]

When I owned OE VeeDub Genuine German Couplers were still available.
211-415-417. These flexed just like the ones I have now. The only difference was the VW Part number, Logos and 'Germany' on the couplers.
See note below:
Folding/bending one in half....is not a test of its torsional strength.

I went ahead and bought several of the couplers recommended in this thread to compare and have on hand should replacement day arrive. I got this one recommended by Bob (Hoody). This coupler is the best of the three. Very clean looking and good rubber. The metal inserts have a few burs that need to be cleaned up, but otherwise its a nice part. If you believe in the taco folding test (I do not, per reasons stated by Ray and others here) this coupler is the most difficult to bend. Of the other two couplers pictured here one is from Wolfsburg West and the other from CIP1. Both seem like they should work just fine too, but are easier to fold.

Also....molded rubber parts...especially reinforced layered rubber parts.....do not have the same strength in all directions. Folding/bending one in half....is not a test of its torsional strength.

[vw nutter]

The ones i got from Richard Davies bent in half VERY easy with 2 fingers, like a soft slice of bread. The metal inserts were not even vulcanized into the rubber. I was very disappointed with them.

@ Richard;
Yes you probably did sell the good original VW genuine ones many years ago,
but what your selling now is total junk, Basically selling a China/Asian copy??item was totally not as described; even the VW bag they came in had a poorly made photocopied VW ORIGINAL PARTS sticker stuck on the bag. that is why i returned all 50 of them back to you.
You were nice enough to refund my money.thanks! - and i have no issue with you selling these, i am just sharing my experience on the forum.
and i guess some people dont know the difference, but i do

The 9x original ones i found are genuine original VW ones and are stiff, they have maybe 1mm of flex, you can feel they are made of high quality material. These were stored dry, cool and in the dark so they do not have any ageing to them or hardening.

any way, i have spent wayy to much time on this,
its been fun and a interesting hunt.
good luck to you all

[SGKent]

in defense of Richard - the originals in my bus had metal pieces that popped out and were not vulcanized. Any rubber part hardens with age even if coated stored in the dark and dry place. It ages less that way but it still ages. I've bought many things from Richard and never had a problem. Also VWNutter - you are in Germany I believe and may have better luck finding things than the rest of us. Not everyone here will be as lucky as you to have an old VW dealer nearby with a plethora of old parts. If VW supported 45 - 50 year old cars, which would be insane, then this discussion would not take place at all. We are limited to what is reproduced or if lucky made by the same companies that always made it. I need a new T4 FI case, I'd love to be able to go visit a dealer for one.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Richard Davies]

[vw nutter]

[SGKent]

[ivwshane]

I cannot comment on the quality of Davies part as it’s the only one I’ve dealt with and I haven’t installed it yet either:(

That being said, as to its bend-ability, it does bend but no where close to the previous picture.

To show you how much it does bend with some weight, I hung the inner part of a heat exchanger from the coupler.

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[TomWesty]

I like your test method. I believe this should now be the test standard for steering couplers. The Ivwshane HE deflection test. Any other method such as taco folding or durometer are hereby deemed to be bogus! By the way, what is the estimated mass of the heat exchanger innards?
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[ivwshane]

[raygreenwood]

As Richard Davies noted as well as SGKent.....how it folds means nothing. You are flat out testing in the wrong axis. These parts should have a "scrim" or reinforcement layer in them.....that keeps them from stretching laterally. That is all that matters.

And....not one person here is actually testing or has tested....for durometer or actual hardness. Not using the folding test. Use a durometer gauge.
One could say that the folding test....somewhat....demonstrates a little bit about the modulus of elasticity....but again ....in the wrong axis. The coupler is not supposed to be strong to prevent folding. Its supposex ti be strong laterally...to prevent spreading and tearing.

Part of that is about density of molding (how much prressure applied to the rubber while in the mold)...and part of that is about the molded in reinforcing scrim.

A better quick test....would be to hang an NOS part from one hole on a pin....and hang a weight from another...and see how far in the flat axis.....it stretches and the compare the same test to a new part. But that will also have variation due to the increase in actual durometer with age.
The only way I know to somewhat offset that....is to know what the durometer was on the NOS part when new.....so you can calculate how much it increased.

No one knows as far as I know....what the original durometer spec was or even what kind of rubber it was. I may pull the ancient one from my 412....same part #....next week and see if I can determine rubber type with a flame test.

So for the moment....the only sure way to see if a new part is good....is to install it and drive on it for a while. Ray

[Wildthings]

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that a part off of some other brand of car is interchangeable and still available from the dealer new. Ford, Chevy, Toyota, might be worth checking to see what is out there.

As for what is available aftermarket, I suspect some of these are nothing more than pieces cut out of conveyor belting and then drilled with inserts pushed into the holes. Maybe that is what the originals were to, but dressed up a bit more.

[Abscate]

Could a hockey puck make a big enough diameter basis for a coupler.

Looks a bit small.

Are there oversized pucks for old guy hockey, or maybe an internet fetish?
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[airschooled]

[bvolks]

I have one of these coming on Friday. Hopefully, it's one of the good ones.
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D211%2D415%2D417%2DGR
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[vw nutter]

[SGKent]

it is nice to hear you are going to share all those original ones you found with everyone else at the same cost of the ones you don't like. The community thanks you.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[kreemoweet]

[raygreenwood]