1965 Australian Standard Beetle Floor Pan Color?

[benzie]

Hi, I’m currently, let us say, “refreshing” my 65 Australian Standard Beetle and I’m trying to find the correct paint colour for the floor pan etc. Having lifted the body and factory body seals it is obviously not merely “black”. I recall some reference to a name like “grey-black” but it’s quite an ambiguous name to google! Can anyone point me in the right direction? Cheers in advance cobbers!

[cbdubs]

I have an Aussie import 58 beetle. It has been restored but I could have a poke about and look for an original part of my floor if you wish? I know the year is wrong but might help, do you think? Let me know.

[viiking]

You can't have this discussion with the majority of our North American SAMBA members as nearly every one of them paints their pans black!

The colour of my Euro spec '68 owned since new in my family was grey-black NOT black.

When pulling the body off the pan, the original shiny grey black is under the body seal. I have had many people debunking this thinking that the paint has oxidised, deteriorated etc but I know it is grey black.

When I redid my pan, I painted it with a POR15/KBS type paint, then a tie coat, then had the colour matched to the grey black.

See some discussion of this here.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714593
Here's a photo of the spine of the pan and an original black inspection plate showing the difference between black and grey black.

_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[viiking]

And here is the inside of the unmolested pan showing that the colour is definitely NOT black.

My belief is that the factory just threw all the slops of paint that were left over together and painted the pans in that colour as it was not visible. Adding all those colours together probably gave a grey black not a black.

In addition some of the rear suspension parts were also grey black not black. Have a look at your rear suspension and see if there are any different colours there.

I still have a piece of the original pan which was under the body seal to use as a paint sample and it was used to colour match the colour at my paint shop.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[meranda]

I agree with viiking. All the unmolested bits of my cars have been that grey black colour. This was the colour of the parts that went thru the dip tank at Clayton and it would also be the first paint that the bodies would have been dipped in.

[Meiang]

Viiking car was one of the German assembled VW Type 1 1500's.

So why is it different from the US cars which were also German assembled.

Or are they not? ie grey black

[harrymarlin]

[viiking]

We are talking about the whole pan and spine of the pan.
My dad was told it was made in Germany when he bought it but during 1968 some of the RHD cars were made from CKD kits i.e. German parts just assembled in Australia because the Australian factory did not tool up for the new body.

Earlier Australian cars had a fair proportion of locally manufactured parts and these parts had Australia or a kangaroo symbol on them. I think the 65 would have been made in Clayton Victoria.

I would assume the practice of painting the pans would have followed whatever the Germans were doing. I can’t believe that they would have thrown away all of the slops of paint they had left over from the painting process.

The only idea that I had re the colour difference was that maybe in Germany they distinguished the RHD from the LHD pans with colour because the pedal cluster and support for it were different on the RHS and they used this to distinguish it. Conjecture-sure.

The picture I posted of the pan that looks a bit blue is definitely a bit faded as I had washed it with some strong degreaser but the sample under the body seal is definitely a dark grey black. In addition the cover plate over the rear torsion tubes is grey black as is the part behind the spring plate (which attaches to the pan)whereas the spring plate and z bar is black.

It doesn’t matter. Only to those who are anal at getting it back to original.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[benzie]

Thanks for the input everyone. By the look of the pics posted there is a definite grey-black used on these cars- my pan looks just the same! The main telltale area was under the factory body seal / sealant. I’m getting pretty close to a match. Definitely on the bluish greenish part of the spectrum. Dulux Australia now tints their Quit-Rust product so as long I can get close... Encycolorpedia here I come (again). I’ll post some comparison pics when I get a round tuit.

[viiking]

The 65 didn’t have the round tuit. It had a square tuit.😂
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[benzie]

[Digger89L]

That photo of the 'black' inspecton cover, compared to the spine of the pan's colour could certainly be chalked up to oxidation ...as well as that photo of the 'unmolested' pan. Have any of you guys tried 'polishing' the grey-black painted areas to see if a good polishing would remove any oxidation, and possibly make them look 'blacker'? I can't think of any rational reason for VW to have used a different kind, or color, of paint on the pans and 'frame' than they did anywhere else that as painted black. If the underbody 'grey-black' paint was something special (ie: rust retardant?) ...they it certainly would have made sense to use it on other areas of the car that were exposed to the elements.
_________________
"If you can't fix it with pop rivets, crazy glue and duct tape, or hold it together with zip ties, velcro or magnets, it REALLY is broken."

[henry roberts]

I can't take pics as it is dark but i have a VW Australia built '63 with the pan off the body at the moment.

The paint under the body/pan rubber is a dark grey with blue tones, not black.

If i remember, tomorrow I'll take pics with some vw colour samples.

[meranda]

Australian cars up to Jan 68 when the Clayton factory started bringing in fully assembled cars were painted with Dulux paints. The body colours were different from the German colours so I guess the colour of the paint in the dip that the pan went through would also not be the same as German cars.

[viiking]

My Dad's car is a number's matching Jan 1968 build. It was not registered until Oct 31 '68 as there was a big backlog of unsold cars in Australia at the time according to this link.

http://www.clubvw.org.au/history004

From memory he bought it off the showroom floor for AUD$1998 so it could have been an early display vehicle (not a demonstrator as it had 0004 miles on it when he got it). He bought it from The House of David at North Ryde, which later was next to the head office of VWA which moved from Clayton to Waterloo Rd North Ryde.

So I still believe it is still a German made vehicle. My understanding is that Australian produced cars had a numbered metal body plate near the VIN plate with a prefix A followed by numbers. His has one with just numbers on it. It also does not have the Dulux or Balm paint colour code on it. Lotus White was a standard VW colour and not a unique Australian colour.

So I can only still believe that the colour of the pan is grey black. The sample piece I have from the under seal area is still polished and not oxidised one little bit. I agree that the picture I posted of the pan is oxidised but it is not black. When I had the paint matched to the sample and sprayed the pan in grey black, I sanded back the first coat well. It does get much lighter but is NOT black.

Here's a photo of the torsion bar cover. Other parts around it are black. This is the same colour as the pan. The other coloured parts were equally oxidised but were black like in the photo with the inspection plate.

Part of the spring plate area which is normally between two sections and not exposed to the elements. You can see the other areas behind where it has been oxidised/damaged due to exposure.

If you blow up the photo around the area of the napoleon's hat which is under the seal, you can see the original colour. It has not been exposed as much as the other photo of the pan I posted. This is more indicative of the real colour.

_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3