Stuck Throttle Flap Shaft

[Qldelsie]

On my 1970 Fastback, the throttle flap shaft (item 19 below) seems to be stuck, from corrosion or similar.
The shaft is held in place by several points where it passes through the alloy fan housing, and all contact points appear to be free except the one on the RH side end of the shaft. I am trying to soak it with WD 40 etc, am trying to twist the shaft with pliers etc, and have tried tapping the end of the shaft to try to free it, (noting fragility of alloy casing) so far all to no avail. My fan housing is still intact as I am trying to do this without having to remove the flywheel..........
Anyone any ideas on how to free a steel shaft that is inside an alloy sleeve. Dissimilar metals do not like each other !!
Page dumps below of the parts I am referring to, plus a photo of where my shaft is stuck, arrowed.......
Any input welcome.
Thanks, G

[Qldelsie]

Aha - It appears that item No 22 in the diagram is a bush, which would mean that the spindle sits in that bush, and not directly in the alloy. Is the bush brass ? Problem is still the same though - How to free up that shaft within the bush. Heat ? Ream out the bush ? Bigger hammer ?
G

[blues90]

The bush is steel it think doesn't look like brass , I wouldn't use anything like a hammer or to much force on the shaft. Try something better than WD 40 and allow it to sit. If I recall there are 4 bushings 2 one either side of each flap . I oil mine once in a while.

Bob Notch has a photo or photo's of him getting the shaft out is photo bucket hasn't screwed them up.

[ataraxia]

The bushings on all of the fan shrouds I've taken apart (more than a few) are brass (or bronze, to Bob's point) - they're an interference fit (for lack of a better description) and when the rod isn't in there - they come out pretty easily.

I'd use something like Fluid Film or a penetrating oil - there's likely a bunch of crap in there preventing the rod from turning.

Keep in mind that it only moves roughly 90º from 'flaps open' to 'flaps closed'.

If you can't get it to turn after soaking it - the fan shroud comes off fairly easily and it's not all that hard to get back on the engine with the engine in the car - it is significantly easier out of the car, IMO.

[Mr.Duncan]

Have you removed the thermostat yet? (#5 in the diagram)

If you haven't removed that, you will have a hard time turning the flap shaft as its connected to that thermostat rod.

I see in your photo you have the upper cylinder head tin off on the 1/2 cylinder side. I just cant see if your thermostat is connected to the rest of that assembly.

Flaps look like they are in the closed position.
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[gt1953]

Title should have read thermostat flaps stuck.
I too wonder if the thermostat has been removed to verify free movement of the linkage.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[blues90]

If he can't move the rod side to side as there is a bit of play, that's all you need to tell if the rod is stuck and cannot rotate.

If it can't be freed up using penetrating oil it's not difficult to pull the fan haves out in the car. If it has the stock exhaust then that is the hard part.

If this is the owners car in the photo looks like the engine is already out .

[Bobnotch]

Here's a link of me taking the flaps out. Toward the bottom of the page.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php...t_dir=DESC

I was mainly doing a reverse for the guy sitting there watching, so he could see how it all goes together.
I believe the bushings are bronze, but could be brass. IDK, I've slept since then. At the end of the rod, there should be a clip to disconnect it from the bell crank from the t-stat. Remove it, and the rod and flaps should move. The bell crank might be rusted in place keeping the flaps from moving. Just something to think about, and I hope this helps.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[Qldelsie]

OK, together with advice from here, and help from a bottle of Eucalyptus oil and my wife's hairdryer, together with a gentle rocking motion of the shaft using vice grips on the spindle shaft, she eventually loosened up and, after lots of rusty yuk came out, is now free as a bird !! Perfecto.
Couple of points : The eucalyptus oil was suggested to me by my 4WD mechanic who suggested it when we couldn't undo one of my rear axle nuts a couple of weeks ago, and it worked then, and now has worked again, freeing rusty parts when other "lubricants" failed. I am now a believer in this stuff for freeing up rusty things. Smells better than WD 40 etc too !!
Yes, the engine was already out. I am on a total rebuild and the engine just came back from a total (big end outwards) rebuild - The guy just forgot I had asked him about that stuck spindle, and was most apologetic.
Yes, the thermostat was already out - In fact everything is off the engine - Just starting to put it all back together now. And I have tested the thermostat in hot water, and it expands and contracts perfectly.
And for anyone still wondering why I didn't take the outer fan housing off in order to help free up the thermostat flap shaft (apologies gt 1953 !, but on the manual copied above it does call it the "Throttle flap shaft" ), I have limited facilities for undoing tight bolts etc, (and I am a weak old man !!) and since the engine has just been all put back together, I really didn't want to disturb things if I could possibly avoid it.
As far as the rest of the car is concerned, it is almost ready for putting back together, Panels all rust proofed on the inside and primed, roof the same (inside and out), all steering and front suspension, brakes etc refurbed and finished, fuel tank ready to be reinserted, gearbox and engine rebuilt, and I am now putting LH suspension back together - diagonal / lateral arm sandblasted and painted, new bushings all round, new dampers etc. The car (1970 fb) is actually in very rust free condition - just having the LH A pillar replaced as that was the only bit that was quite bad. The car appears to be very low mileage (40,000 miles ??) but has sat outside in the harsh Aussie sun and weather for many years, so despite being very rust free, everything had suffered - seats, carpets, roof lining, dashboard, were all falling apart (literally) so have all new from TMI sitting here ready to go in. Once rear suspension is back on, we put the engine back in, then she goes for painting (staying Clementine), then roof liner and upholstery. Plan is to be on the road by end of March at latest. Then?????? I am thinking of shipping her over to USA in a year or so and going back to Alaska (3rd time, 3rd different car !!) as that is where my heart lies. Then maybe over to Newfoundland which IMHO is very close to Alaska in terms of scenery and friendly people ! Plus lots of good people and places in between !
I just love driving........................

[Qldelsie]

Thanks for the link to ypur pics, Bobnotch, excellent, and have bookmarked them. Pics of my rebuild can be found here. I should warn that these photos are from my personal blog, not just a rebuild blog, so you might find some other photos in there other than VW ones !! No apologies, just letting you know !!

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO_5maSJbtQnZ...05NmVKM09B

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOs9MMuzMVXO0...lUOHdWTVdR

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOcdvxxuGziO8...M1TklUc2JR

[old_man]

[Qldelsie]

I think it was still in its bracket ????? Didn't take a photo !! But it is still out so can test it again before I put it back in. Do you know why that causes a problem ? Does it expand "too far" when it is out of its bracket, or something ?
G

[old_man]

[Qldelsie]

How do you know when it fails ? Kind of hard to see once everything is back together !!!

[old_man]

[Bobnotch]

[Bobnotch]

[Qldelsie]

Yes, we took the ferry up to Alaska last time we went, mainly because I had already driven the other roads, and found the ferry FANTASTIC. (My sister lives 40 feet from the ferry terminal in Anacortes, so we started there). Having a Toyota Landcruiser camper, we just got off in each and every port, stayed 2-3 days to explore, then jumped back on the next ferry and on to the next stop ! Great camp spots everywhere, even in May. Only place we couldn't get the car out to was Sitka (no car space on ferry due to a big school basketball comp that week) so we just passengered it out to there for a few days and moteled it.

Notch in the end of the shaft to indicate flap position sounds a great solution. As for being stuck in the open position, that is where mine was stuck, but I have a feeling that the being stuck had nothing to do with the Thermostat, but more to do with the car just sitting around unused for an indeterminate number of years, and that RH bushing had just corroded and cemented the spindle in place. Currently trying to track down a previous owner to find out even a little bit about the car's history.

G