73 up super differences - couple questions

[andk5591]

May have a serious project coming into the shop next year and doing some research.

The car is a 73 and has extensive rot. I have to save as much of the original car as possible, but the pan, tunnel, frame head etc are toast as well as the usual body rot.

What is going to make the most sense it to find a good donor from out west for the pan, suspension (and as much else as possible) and go from there. The question is what years are my best options.

I know the ball joint styles changed in 74, assuming the control arms and complete strut assemblies are interchangable from 73 to 79? (for example, if I use a 74 pan, will the control arms and strut assemblies bolt on to a 73 body with the later strut bearing)

I know they went to Rack and pinion in 75. CAN that be used with a 73 body or are there structure differences?

Seat frames - had no clue that there were differences in the pedestal seats, but ran into that a year or so ago with the rear legs being different. What years had what style OR was that a difference between Supers and Standards?

Thanks in advance
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Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
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[volksworld]

sounds like you need to find a complete curved shield donor car and put the customers engine trans and interior into it...preferably the same color so you can claim you welded his body onto it...cause otherwise you're into a lot of unnecessary fabrication to weld a rusty top to a solid bottom....75 and up will have the larger engine compartment for the FI cylinder covers, 74 and 75 and up use 2 different styles of bumper shocks and the body is shaped completely differently to accommodate them and the bulbous apron to clear the FI muffler ,73 should still have early bumpers so best bet would be cut off the rear clip at the firewall like a baha to retain the smaller engine bay and correct bumper mounts...up front i THINK you can bolt the early brackets in place of the bumper shocks....and i THINK the rack attaches to the same bolt holes as the box and idler arm but i cant swear to it... worse case leave the rack in it the outer tie rod ends are the same....i believe all bug/super pedastal seats interchange...the only difference is some years the adjuster is right on the seat and on earlier ones its released by a lever on the top of the tunnel with a rod that attaches under the seat...but all that stuff can be removed and welded to a later donor...just dont throw it out

[H2OSB]

I didn't know some of the engine compartment parameters listed above but I've never had a fuel injected Super. I recently discovered how different the bumper mounting can be on various year Supers when I tried to fit '73 bumpers on a '73 Super with '74 fenders(replaced with fenders I had on hand after my son was in a minor crash in the '73).

The factory steering rack bolts on it's outer ends to captive nuts on the edge of the inner fender. The frame head is clearanced with a kinda of scoop out of it for the rack to pass through under the spare tire well. Look at pictures of replacement sections of frame head tops available on the market as all are the later style made to accommodate the factory rack&pinion.

All pedistal seats interchange.

You can swap the entire front suspension, early for late and vis versa, but you must use all of one kind together. You can't mix and match. The exception to this is the upper strut mounts. You want to use the appropriate ones for the year of the car. If you have the early style suspension and decide to swap to the later style (which I THINK you'd need to do if you plan to retrofit the rack&pinion steering), you need to slightly clearance the reinforcement "fins" on the top side of the control arms where the inner end of the arm enters the inner arm mount. At the top of the arms range of motion, unclearanced fins will hit on something inside the mount.

Hope this helps
H2OSB
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The 71-73 cars used the 3 bolt ball joint that mounted to the bottom of the strut. The 74-79 had the two bolt lower strut mount that bolted to the spindle. They both have different control arms, and frame heads. I’d be looking for a 73 Super specifically, but the 71-72 stuff could work.

[andk5591]

Keep it coming - this is really good info.

As far as body related - There is sentimental value to the car otherwise I would have the customer just start with a better car. We both understand that there will be greater cost in saving as much of the original car as possible, but I get it.
So, we are going to be fixing the body. And yeah, I am aware of the bumper brackets.

Right now there is a good donor listed, but its too early to pull the trigger on it. So, the info you are supplying is helping me broaden my search options when I get closer. Honestly, would love to drop a later pan with rack and pinion in the car. Love how much better the steering feels on the later cars.

On the seat base differences - just a note - I had to do some work on a Super a year or two ago where the pans had been replaced and the seat was too far forward. My solution with to add a set of rear seat legs in front of the originals and discovered that there are 2 different style rear legs on the seat frames. Fortunately I did have a seat base in my stash that I could cut the legs off and install. Actually came out really nicely, so this part of the question for more for my own info.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[volksworld]

i swear the seats are the same....73 to 79 uses the same floorpans...sounds like you may have run into a case where someone welded the pedistal in the wrong spot or added late seat tracks to an early pan in not quite the right spot....there were many years where late aftermarket pans werent available yet and people did all kinds of stuff to try to use early ones....another possibility ...early rabbit buckets looked like late bug seats but the rear legs were a different distance apart...maybe your tracks were installed to accomodate these....the pan basically has nothing to do with the rack...it mounts to the body (my comments based on swapping the whole body/chassis)....the later frame heads are technically different using tabs where the control arms can be moved to upper and lower positions, but they are the same width (they use the same bushing) and i'm fairly certain they are the same distance apart ....easy enough to check with a ruler....73 is a transitional year...early ones use lower ball joints that bolt to the spindle with 3 bolts...late 73 and up uses a ball joint that presses into the lower control arm...which style does yours have?

[H2OSB]

[vamram]

'71-'73.5 front suspension is the same and interchangeable. '73.5-'74 is the same, others have specified the differences for you. You can swap between the 2 types but need to bring[EDIT] the complete assembly with you, only the centerlink and tie rods are interchangeable, possibly the idler arm. My opinion from having both is '73.+ is superior. From what I've read, you can't put a '75+ rack-and-pinion front end in the previous years Supers w/out cutting and welding sections of the frame head.
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The steering boxes, and center link, and tie rods are interchangeable. The pitman arms, and idler arms are different. I’m assuming the strut locations in the bodies are the same, so I guess you could swap an entire pan/suspension from the later cars. The customer is going to have 5-10 times the value of the vehicle into the repair, so I would try as hard as possible to get it back to 100% stock imo.

[Daddy o's 67]

For parts & pieces check with https://interstateusedparts.com/ . They had quite a bit of super stuff from parts & pieces to solid looking shells of cars in the yard.

For shipping try freightquote.com for a price, if your getting big items or a lot of parts at once. We use them for work and are happy with the service and support.

[TK-CS]

You can mount the '71-'73 control arms to a '74-'79 pan as the newer frame head has mounting locations for both suspensions. You just have to move the guiding plates for the inner control arm mounts from the upper to the lower holes on the frame head.
The seats were changed for My. '76. The release lever for the longitudinal adjustment was moved from the frame to the seat. So an old seat on a new frame will be problematic.
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