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I just bought a Westy Single Cab! (1.6TD JX)
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old_man
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
You might already know this but you can switch which side you install the shafts on in order to reverse which side of the CV races gets the majority of the wear. You can switch the shafts end to end on one side to move the major wear location a little due to the weight of the axle tending to move it outward toward the tire.


Ya, that was the initial plan. However, I noticed someone had already done that that I figured might as well leave it as is. There were several different wear marks. Maybe 944 joints are in the future.

?Waldo? wrote:

If you didn't replace all the CV hardware, then I would put it on the list for next time.


Luckily for me the new boots came with new bolts. The only hardware I reused was those little half moon metal plates with the two holes. I don't think it would have been possible for me to put the old bolts on.

?Waldo? wrote:

Nice save on the heater hose. That had already worn through all the reinforcing.


Yup, not much left. It was surviving but maybe one cold night outside would have been all it took. I'm hoping that fix can last a while, I've had enough coolant showers this month. I don't see why it wouldn't though.

?Waldo? wrote:

I have a spare injection pump IN bolt and fitting attached to a marine primer bulb. I swap that onto the return to pull fuel from the tank all the way through the pump. It works very well with little to no mess (degreaser).


I will have to keep that in mind if I ever swap out my inlet hose. I will keep it and turn it into a primer.


?Waldo? wrote:

I usually drive a new-to-me VW diesel very minimally before I swap the timing belt.


I hear you. Only 1/2 tank so far. I was planning on doing it earlier but as I did further readying upon the subject I learned that I should get the tension gauge to properly do the job. That tool only showed up this morning.

?Waldo? wrote:

The little bit of smoke you describe is probably normal.

Excellent

?Waldo? wrote:

Trans is likely fine but hard to diagnose noises online.


I suppose i could try to record a clip. Not sure if the sound would come through. I will attempt in the next day or two. (work tomorrow...ugh)
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old_man
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
I'm an expert in nothing and a speculator in everything, but don't you ideally want the driving lights on the inside and the fogs on the outside?


Yes. That was my initial goal. However, the size/shape of the giant driving ones didn't allow that. I think it was because if they were on the outer they would be too far set back and the silver ones would then obstruct. This way they still fan out fully. I'm still playing with them, I might mount it all together differently.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

Russpauly wrote:


Would love to hear what resolves this as I’ve noticed this too on my ‘88. Great thread and very thorough. Have loved all the detail from the start.


I'll let you know if I come up with anything. I'm just hoping it's normal and not a ticking time bomb.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

Really quick video sitting in my driveway after coming home from work. I didn't realize my cell would pick up the ambient noise of me moving about in the cockpit so much. I'll try to get a better one at some other point.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZraqtYwIr-7cu7o887ITOM-L6weVWcYa


0-2s clutch is up
2-4s clutch is on the floor
4-11s clutch is up
11-12s clutch is on the floor
12-21s clutch is up
21-22s clutch is on the floor
22s on on wards clutch stays up, at 28s I start to rev the engine a little.

Thoughts?
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T3messie
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

Can not hear anything abnormal except a missing muffler?
In my doka I went through 3 gearboxes with "losräderrasseln" until I changed the clutch, then there was silence. Rolling Eyes .

But Snow! Go for a spin. Very Happy
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old_man
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

T3messie wrote:
Can not hear anything abnormal except a missing muffler?
In my doka I went through 3 gearboxes with "losräderrasseln" until I changed the clutch, then there was silence. Rolling Eyes .

But Snow! Go for a spin. Very Happy


What clutch kit did you buy? Did you replace the flywheel as well?

A lot of snow today, full on blizzard. Should be a good test to see if that extra weight I threw in the back helps.

Does "losräderrasseln" translate to "loose wheel rattle"?

Interesting discription on a German motor forum (google translate)

"A gear always consists of two gears, one of which is firmly connected to a shaft, the other is freely rotatable (loose) on the other shaft, and is only engaged when the gear is engaged via a clutch (not the clutch that the driver has with his foot operated!) positively connected to the shaft. So there are the so-called "loose wheels".

In order for gears to mesh with each other, they need minimal play between their tooth flanks, the tooth flank play. Otherwise they jam and only run jerkily and rattling.

When a car is running at idle speed and without using the clutch, all (!) Gear wheels in the transmission turn without transmitting power. The engine vibrations transmit vibrations to the transmission. The idler gears absorb these vibrations because they are not "clamped" in a power flow, and vibrate despite their rotation within the backlash. that creates a rattle. Since the transmission is a cavity and thus represents a resonance body, noises from the transmission are also amplified as a result.

So, there are loose wheel rattles, it can happen, but is in itself harmless. And I don't think the damage came as a result of the loose wheel rattle."

Maybe it's just more prenounced on older diesels as they vibrate a lot more?


Last edited by old_man on Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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T3messie
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

I replaced with a good used one I had and do not remember about the flyweel for sure, but probably not.

I suppose there were some loose springs on the noisy clutch.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

Sitting in the parking lot at work.

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old_man
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

T3messie wrote:


But Snow! Go for a spin. Very Happy


Spin complete! All that weight in the back I added really improved things. It was a longer than usual commute home from work. It snowed more than I expected.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

Just jealous. No snow here this winter so far. I never tried to add more weight to the back of my doka. Where do you put it, all at the back of the flatbed? How do you secure it?

old_man wrote:


Does "losräderrasseln" translate to "loose wheel rattle"?


Yes, that might be a good translation.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

T3messie wrote:
Just jealous. No snow here this winter so far. I never tried to add more weight to the back of my doka. Where do you put it, all at the back of the flatbed? How do you secure it?



Don't worry, the snow will all be melted in a few days due to rain. I hate rain.

We have a water well. We also have a water softener. I used 9 20kg bag of water softener salt. I placed the bags in a row just forward of the engine hatch. I didn't put it all the way at the back for fear of making it a little too tail happy. I also wanted to be able to access the engine as I am still messing with these days. It's not secured yet either. I might experiment with changing the weight or location. Here is a pic from this morning, a little hard to see but should be able to make out the sale bags, sky blue in colour.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

So today I decided to tackle the timing belt before going to work. I took a lot of pictures and then about halfway through I stopped. Here goes.

Here are some of the specialty tools I used. There is a belt tension tool, a dial gauge, a dial gauge holder, a extension rod for the dial gauge, a cam timing tool/plate, and a metal cylinder to lock the pump.
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I left the truck outside because I didn't want all the snow to melt in the garage and flood it. My work garage doesn't have slope or good drainage. This is what I was dealing with.
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The first step for me was to insert the dial gauge and holder to see if it fit. It would be a shame to go through everything and then realize the tool you need didn't fit. I had to remove a coolant line and an oil line(turbo)
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I got the first pullet off. I didn't realize it at the time but those holes aren't equally spaced out. I could fit an impact in there so it was easy to get off. I pulled the muffler for room.
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I also pulled that coolant holding tank. What a PITA that is. Barely enough room between the bumper and body to get a tool in.
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More evidence of a PO who had a thing for using random hardware.
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This is with the covers off. I had to pull the water pump pulley as well. Note the orientation of the tensioner, I certainly didn't at the time.
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Off comes the valve cover. Air filter can removed for ease of access.
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Ensure that the entire gasket is off. I almost got caught by this. It's hidden where I can't easily see it.
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TDC
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TDC confirmed with valves. Both #1 pointed up.
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Not a good picture by there is a side shot of where that cam plate slides into.
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Before taking the belt off I wanted to see where it was to know what kind of adjustment I would need and to double check that my technique for measure was working. I'm still at the point that I can put everything back together, I haven't 'untimed' it yet.

At TDC dial guage zeroed with 5mm of preload.
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Cranked backwards until the needle stops. Shows about -0.9mm. I then zeroed it there with 4mm of preload.
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This is it rotated it back to TDC. Shows 0.9mm of lift. This is the factory setting. My research indicates 1.0mm is generally accepted as the best for the JX (1.6TD). This is what I set.
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All the belts and tensioner off.
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Plate in.
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New belt on.
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This was the procedure I used. I loosened the cam bolt and gear (without the timing plate in). I then inserted the plate it and the pin into the pump. The belt and tensioner came off. New belt and tensioner came in.

I think I made a mistake getting the tensioner on. You can either tension it by rotating it clockwise or by rotating it counter clockwise. The previous tensioner was the latter and that is what I should have done but I didn't. I have since rectified this. Unfortunately, no pictures.

To time the sucker I put the pin in the pump and then ignored it. The pump comes later (just like a distributor). I then made sure that the crank is at TDC (it will wander for some reason). I made sure the cam plate is still in. I then put my tension gauge on and adjusted the tensioner. Last is to torque down the cam bolt. Boom. Done.

Next was to do a complete 720 of the crank clockwise to make sure that nothing is really messed. I then re-checked tension and timing. Tension needed to be adjusted. I had to put the pin and plate back in, loosen the cam bolt, put the tension gauge on and re-tensioned it. Rertorque cam bolt and another 720 for recheck. All is good.

Now we can do the injection pump. Pin and cam plate removed. Go to TDC, insert dial gauge with a some preload (2mm min). Then rotate the crank counter clockwise until the gauge stops moving.

Interesting side note here. Depending on how cheap of a dial gauge adapter you get it may bind slightly and not follow the pin into the pump when it retracts. You may have to put a little bit of pressure on the top of the dial gauge to make sure it's seated. Hard to explain, I wish I had taken a picture.

Once you have gone backwards and the dial gauge stops zero it. Then rotate crack clockwise until you see TDC on the flywheel. If you over shoot the flywheel I recommend you go backwards a fair bit and then go forward again. I was having issues if I just went backwards and stopped. Almost like there is some back lash in the system. You always want to stop on the clockwise rotation. Take a look at your dial gauge. That is your setting.

If you are not happy with your setting insert your pin and loosen the 4 bolts/nuts. Rotate the pump (with the pin still in there) until you have the setting you desire. Tighten those 4 bolts/nut and remove the pin. Recheck pump timing. Rinse, lather, repeat until you are happy. At that point you are done.

Put it all back together. Done.


Found on the cover.
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Took a test drive on my into work. Overall I am quite happy. I, once again, re-adjusted the throttle cable. The truck has a lot more power and is smoother. I can comfortable go 110km/hr up hills. I could not before. There might be a bit more smoke under full load but it's hard to tell. Not sure how to fix that, vwdiesel.net seems to be down. I shall see how it starts in the morning when I leave work and the truck has cold soaked all night. I'm not convince my glow plugs are all working.


My replacement mirrors from Japan came in. Turns out they are actually from Brazil. I'm going to have to google these a bit more.
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A better shot of where my weight rests.
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Last edited by old_man on Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

Glad to hear it is running well.

A couple details... You are actually supposed to rotate the tensioner clockwise, the PO had it wrong. It gives better wrap on the cam sprocket that way.

I feel a little concern about your described procedure and when you tensioned the belt. The pump lock should not be in and the cam sprocket should still be able to rotate on the cam when tensioning the belt. If pump pin is in and/or cam sprocket cannot rotate you then the tensioning reading is skewed. Also, just prior to tensioning the belt, you should rotate CCW a few degrees and then back CW to TDC without going past. That places all belt slack in the tensioner area. Then tension the belt, then set the cam sprocket. VW also specs placing equal feeler gauges on either side of the cam lock plate to take up any movement there.

You could turn the max fuel screw down slightly if you are concerned about the full pedal smoke. You might have to turn your idle up a little afterwards.

My favorite way to test the individual glow plugs is to cycle them a couple times on a cold engine and then use my multimeter with temperature probe to measure the temp of the head right next to the glow plugs. It is easy to tell which ones are good and which are not. When ever I have the injectors out I always turn the key to ON and look down into the injector holes to confirm that all four are glowing well.


Last edited by ?Waldo? on Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

Minor pedantic detail, but you have your cam lock in there backwards. Those tangs are supposed to rest on the horizontal surface where the VC gasket sits.

Also, what's that pin with the black plastic knob?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

I think the pin with the black knob might be for a late AAZ or ALH with the hub/sprocket setup.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

Ah, that makes sense. I've seen that tool before with other t-belt tool kits, but never in this context. Just wondering I'd been missing out on something all these years.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
Glad to hear it is running well.

A couple details... You are actually supposed to rotate the tensioner clockwise, the PO had it wrong. It gives better wrap on the cam sprocket that way.


Oh good, I get to fix it again..... Maybe I will retime it all tomorrow. Shouldn't be as much work seeing as the belt won't have to be changed.

?Waldo? wrote:

I feel a little concern about your described procedure and when you tensioned the belt. The pump lock should not be in and the cam sprocket should still be able to rotate on the cam when tensioning the belt. If pump pin is in and/or cam sprocket cannot rotate you then the tensioning reading is skewed. Also, just prior to tensioning the belt, you should rotate CCW a few degrees and then back CW to TDC without going past. That places all belt slack in the tensioner area. Then tension the belt, then set the cam sprocket. VW also specs placing equal feeler gauges on either side of the cam lock plate to take up any movement there.


The cam certainly could rotate when tensioning as I left the torquing of the cam bolt last. It didn't make sense to me to torque the cam bolt down and then try to tension the system. You have me second guessing if I left the pin in or not. I am trying to remember how I did it all now.

I tried getting feeler gauges in there but it was a very tight fit so I forgoed them.

?Waldo? wrote:

You could turn the max fuel screw down slightly if you are concerned about the full pedal smoke. You might have to turn your idle up a little afterwards.


Down = screw out?

?Waldo? wrote:

My favorite way to test the individual glow plugs is to cycle them a couple times on a cold engine and then use my multimeter with temperature probe to measure the temp of the head right next to the glow plugs. It is easy to tell which ones are good and which are not. When ever I have the injectors out I always turn the key to ON and look down into the injector holes to confirm that all four are glowing well.


What kind of temperature rise do you get on the head? Is your temperature probe an IR gun or a thermocoupler probe?

Thanks for taking the time here.

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:


Minor pedantic detail, but you have your cam lock in there backwards. Those tangs are supposed to rest on the horizontal surface where the VC gasket sits.

Also, what's that pin with the black plastic knob?


Black knob thingy came in the bag with the kit I bought. Didn't use it. Yes, the cam lock is backwards, It didn't fit forwards. Slightly wide. I think it's because I left my valve cover studs in place and they have little shoulders. I thought about grinding the plate down to fit but was worried I would warp or bend it so I left it as is. Hind sight 20/20 I could have just removed the two back valve cover studs. Either way it still gave a good fit.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:51 am    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

I never had the coolant or oil line in the way. Maybe my adapter is shorter?
But well done, it is a very satisfying job.

Did you check the valve clearance while you where inside the head?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

T3messie wrote:
I never had the coolant or oil line in the way. Maybe my adapter is shorter?
But well done, it is a very satisfying job.

Did you check the valve clearance while you where inside the head?


I might have been able to make it work with out removing the line and hose but it took all of 60 seconds to remove both. Definitely easier to see the dial without them. You're probably right that my adapter is a little longer.

I didn't because I was on a bit of a time crunch and I think I read somewhere that it needs to be on a hot/warm engine.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: I just bought a Westy Single Cab! Reply with quote

Couldn't start the truck at work this morning. Cold soaked to -13C. It felt like it firing on only 2 cylinders.

I had just ordered new glow plugs to. Relay as well.
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