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58Olstor
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 57
Location: Brøsetvegen 167, 7050 Trondheim, Norway
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 Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:45 am Post subject: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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Help!
In my 1961 panel van there is an 1970 40hp 1285cc bug engine.
The manifold has a preheating tube and I wonder what direction the exhaust flow is going (Left, right or pulsation) and what design the exhaust system should have for this to work?
Manifold part number is 113.129.701 K 5
Existing exhaust systems are a rebuilt beetle system and do not appear to have worked very well...
I should have had a standard exhaust bus system adapted to the bug engine but don't know which one.
Torstein Olsen
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Culito
11010101
Joined: December 07, 2006
Posts: 5866
Location: Columbia Missourah
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| Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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Appears to be right to left (looking straight at the manifold)
Maybe?
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'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug
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58Olstor
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 57
Location: Brøsetvegen 167, 7050 Trondheim, Norway
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| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:15 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| Culito wrote: |
Appears to be right to left (looking straight at the manifold)
Maybe? |
Thanks for reply. can see that there's more metal on the left side and if the exhaust coming from the right, maybe both sides will be equally hot.
There are various designs of exhaust systems. Which type will provide exhaust flow from right to left? |
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Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:15 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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It depends on the muffler. Some mufflers have the "tube" on the right, some on the left, the "tube" is always the outlet or downstream side of the pre-heater. I'm very aware of this because if it is on the left I can't run it with a CB filter pump (it hits the filter).
If you're running a header or aftermarket exhaust, you probably have zero flow through the tube anyway, unless you've made modifications we've discussed here.
The pre-heat tube under the manifold doesn't care which direction the exhaust is flowing, as long as it IS flowing.
| 58Olstor wrote: |
Which type will provide exhaust flow from right to left? |
Mufflers that have the "tube" on the left.
_________________
'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
'66- http://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2888&sid=54d8dedfb3822f99c7f2ea430cb4e856
'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263 |
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58Olstor
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 57
Location: Brøsetvegen 167, 7050 Trondheim, Norway
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:18 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
It depends on the muffler. Some mufflers have the "tube" on the right, some on the left, the "tube" is always the outlet or downstream side of the pre-heater. I'm very aware of this because if it is on the left I can't run it with a CB filter pump (it hits the filter).
If you're running a header or aftermarket exhaust, you probably have zero flow through the tube anyway, unless you've made modifications we've discussed here.
The pre-heat tube under the manifold doesn't care which direction the exhaust is flowing, as long as it IS flowing.
| 58Olstor wrote: |
Which type will provide exhaust flow from right to left? |
Mufflers that have the "tube" on the left.
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Thank you!  I think the manifold is designed for exhaust flow from right to left but for type 2 bus I can not find an exhaust system designed for this ... |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| 58Olstor wrote: |
Thank you! I think the manifold is designed for exhaust flow from right to left but for type 2 bus I can not find an exhaust system designed for this ... |
Intake manifold will work either way with various Beetle stock mufflers.
Any stock Bus type muffler with outlet to the dampener on the left should be designed for right to left flow as long as it has the vacuum pipe.
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58Olstor
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 57
Location: Brøsetvegen 167, 7050 Trondheim, Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:25 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| 58Olstor wrote: |
Thank you! I think the manifold is designed for exhaust flow from right to left but for type 2 bus I can not find an exhaust system designed for this ... |
Intake manifold will work either way with various Beetle stock mufflers.
Any stock Bus type muffler with outlet to the dampener on the left should be designed for right to left flow as long as it has the vacuum pipe. |
Thank you so much for trying to help me  The problem is that I can't find an exhaust system for bus with my beetle engine that has vacuum pipe on the left side. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:13 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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Is that the intake manifold for the engine?
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Clara 
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12401
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:26 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| 58Olstor wrote: |
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| 58Olstor wrote: |
Thank you! I think the manifold is designed for exhaust flow from right to left but for type 2 bus I can not find an exhaust system designed for this ... |
Intake manifold will work either way with various Beetle stock mufflers.
Any stock Bus type muffler with outlet to the dampener on the left should be designed for right to left flow as long as it has the vacuum pipe. |
Thank you so much for trying to help me The problem is that I can't find an exhaust system for bus with my beetle engine that has vacuum pipe on the left side. |
I don't understand.
You have a 40hp engine for you bus? so you want a 40hp bus exhaust.
If you are running fresh air, you want a fresh air 40hp bus exhaust.
If you are running the stale air, you want a stale air 40hp bus exhaust.
It is hard to see, but i think your pic may be a 1500/1600 manifold.
look at where the intake attaches to the head:
40hp intake:
1500/1600 sp intake:
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:37 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
It depends on the muffler. Some mufflers have the "tube" on the right, some on the left, the "tube" is always the outlet or downstream side of the pre-heater. I'm very aware of this because if it is on the left I can't run it with a CB filter pump (it hits the filter).
If you're running a header or aftermarket exhaust, you probably have zero flow through the tube anyway, unless you've made modifications we've discussed here.
The pre-heat tube under the manifold doesn't care which direction the exhaust is flowing, as long as it IS flowing.
| 58Olstor wrote: |
Which type will provide exhaust flow from right to left? |
Mufflers that have the "tube" on the left.
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Whats the modification?
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12409
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:06 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| crofty wrote: |
| Whats the modification? |
I've seen a set of gaskets for the riser where one has a small hole on it instead of the normal port hole. I'd assume that would create some sort of flow. "Which way" the flow happens should not really matter so long as there is one!?! 
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:10 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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Looks like the new Dansk 1300/1500/1600 bus muffler has the pipe on the right!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1952965
Thai still could be used with small heat riser gasket then on the left side.
Nice thing about that pipe being on that side is one can much more easily use the Maxi 2 oil filter pump without any worry of the filter being in the way of the vacuum pipe.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:14 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| pyrOman wrote: |
| crofty wrote: |
| Whats the modification? |
I've seen a set of gaskets for the riser where one has a small hole on it instead of the normal port hole. I'd assume that would create some sort of flow. "Which way" the flow happens should not really matter so long as there is one!?! |
That is just going to have same pressure on each side. One would have to drill the front of the muffler body and make/weld in a vacuum pipe.
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58Olstor
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 57
Location: Brøsetvegen 167, 7050 Trondheim, Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| pyrOman wrote: |
| crofty wrote: |
| Whats the modification? |
I've seen a set of gaskets for the riser where one has a small hole on it instead of the normal port hole. I'd assume that would create some sort of flow. "Which way" the flow happens should not really matter so long as there is one!?! |
That is just going to have same pressure on each side. One would have to drill the front of the muffler body and make/weld in a vacuum pipe. |
Thank you so much for trying to help me
My 1961 type 2 bus has is a 1970 40hp beetle 1285cc engine. It has heating boxes and additionally preheating of the manifold.
The manifold is designed so that the exhaust flow goes from right to left to provide equal preheating to the cylinders.
The exhaust system must then have vacuum pipe (curved pipe) on the left and in addition connections for heating boxes.
I can't find a bus exhaust system designed like this but for beetle there are many suppliers. It looks like I need to modify an exhaust system or use a beetle exhaust system |
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58Olstor
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 57
Location: Brøsetvegen 167, 7050 Trondheim, Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| pyrOman wrote: |
| crofty wrote: |
| Whats the modification? |
I've seen a set of gaskets for the riser where one has a small hole on it instead of the normal port hole. I'd assume that would create some sort of flow. "Which way" the flow happens should not really matter so long as there is one!?! |
Thank you so much for trying to help me
It looks like I need to modify an exhaust system or use a beetle exhaust system |
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58Olstor
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 57
Location: Brøsetvegen 167, 7050 Trondheim, Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| crofty wrote: |
| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
It depends on the muffler. Some mufflers have the "tube" on the right, some on the left, the "tube" is always the outlet or downstream side of the pre-heater. I'm very aware of this because if it is on the left I can't run it with a CB filter pump (it hits the filter).
If you're running a header or aftermarket exhaust, you probably have zero flow through the tube anyway, unless you've made modifications we've discussed here.
The pre-heat tube under the manifold doesn't care which direction the exhaust is flowing, as long as it IS flowing.
| 58Olstor wrote: |
Which type will provide exhaust flow from right to left? |
Mufflers that have the "tube" on the left.
|
Whats the modification? |
Thank you so much for trying to help me
My 1961 type 2 bus has is a 1970 40hp beetle 1285cc engine. It has heating boxes and additionally preheating of the manifold.
The manifold is designed so that the exhaust flow goes from right to left to provide equal preheating to the cylinders.
The exhaust system must then have vacuum pipe (curved pipe) on the left and in addition connections for heating boxes.
I can't find a bus exhaust system designed like this but for beetle there are many suppliers. It looks like I need to modify an exhaust system or use a beetle exhaust system |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| 58Olstor wrote: |
| It looks like I need to modify an exhaust system or use a beetle exhaust system |
Just use the Dansk Bus muffler (if you are using the 1300/1500/1600 intake manifold) and switch the gaskets on the intake pre-heat pipe. The pre-heat pipe built into the intake does not care which way the flow is to heat it up.
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58Olstor
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2014
Posts: 57
Location: Brøsetvegen 167, 7050 Trondheim, Norway
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:29 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| 58Olstor wrote: |
| It looks like I need to modify an exhaust system or use a beetle exhaust system |
Just use the Dansk Bus muffler (if you are using the 1300/1500/1600 intake manifold) and switch the gaskets on the intake pre-heat pipe. The pre-heat pipe built into the intake does not care which way the flow is to heat it up. |
I think the exhaust stream should be from right to left in the preheater pipe to the manifold. The reason is that there is more metal on the left side of the manifold.
When the exhaust goes from right to left it will first release heat on the right side with a higher temperature than when it comes to the left side.
When the exhaust comes to the left, the temperature is a little lower, but here it is more metal. The exhaust then gives off more heat than on the right side but with a slightly lower temperature.
In theory, then, total heat transfer to the cylinders becomes equal on the left and right sides as the exhaust goes from right to left. I think... |
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joe cool
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2006
Posts: 1259
Location: Yolo County CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:58 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| I have some heat riser to exhaust gaskets with a much smaller hole than the ones that come in a gasket kit. I have never been certain where and when to use them. I think there purpose was to aid in directing the flow through the heat riser. Anyone know about these? |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: Re: In what direction should the exhaust flow be? |
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| 58Olstor wrote: |
I think the exhaust stream should be from right to left in the preheater pipe to the manifold. The reason is that there is more metal on the left side of the manifold... |
Well VW seemed to not think that. Several times VW had mufflers made with the vacuum pipe switched to the other side for beetle, and kept the same intake manifold pre-heat pipe design.
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