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valvecovergasket
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2018
Posts: 1491
Location: pnw
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 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| Jeffrey Lee wrote: |
| valvecovergasket wrote: |
| would there have been any room to upsize to the larger ones? i assume its a huge project with little upside given the tight quarters under there |
There is little benefit—and much added work—to installing the 1.5" pipes in an older van which has the 1.25" pipes. Just install new 1.25" SS replacement pipes. |
I agree.
Looking around for evidence,,,, consider that the big-engine crowd, by now, would have discovered if the 1.25s were insufficient. |
Sounds good!
Yeah that makes sense, I don't see anyone complaining about capacity with swapped older vans
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jlrftype7
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Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3582
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| valvecovergasket wrote: |
to sort of derail the topic - whats the feeling on replacing the old 1.25" metal pipes with like-sized stainless?
maybe dont bother?
or how hard is fitting 1.5" stainless lines in place of factory 1.25" originals? |
I did this since I have a stock 1.9 liter system. You would have to open up or expand the sheetmetal sections that the stock metal pipes are routed through if you upgrade to the later 1 1/2" pipes.
The stock holes fit the smaller 1 1/4" pipes . This is mentioned in several places if you're thinking about it.
I stuck with 1/ 1/4" pipes, may someday have to buy adapters if I need the radiator hoses since I think only the 1 1/2" ones are easily available compared to the earlier hoses.
My original steel pipes were very nice internally, they only rusted on the outside at a couple of spots, but a leak is a leak either way... 
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
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khughes
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013
Posts: 747
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| fxr wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
| Are the stainless steel pipes electrically isolated from the van chassis? They are certainly isolated from the engine by the rubber hoses. It seems like if they are isolated, they would add no threat of corrosion. Is this true? |
They are electrically connected via the coolant, which is slightly conductive |
Yes the coolant (as a mild electrolyte is a current path). My question is, if the pipes are isolated, what then......is the other current path? |
There isn't. You need the metal to metal contact to create a thermoelectric junction and lead to corrosion.
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Jeffrey Lee
Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2014
Posts: 1488
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| E1 wrote: |
| Jeffrey, I'd think that the worse the strain, the more the gain of the larger pipes, No? |
More, of course, is always better, especially when discussing motor sports. But do we really want to apply that term to Vanagons? 
It's Friday, so ...
Assuming a 10' length of pipe, the difference in total fluid capacity between the two pipe diameters is approximately 36 fluid ounces, or 2.25 pints of Potosi Snake Hollow IPA*.
That's roughly one additional quart in an 18-quart cooling system, or about 5% more.
* For the record, I generally find the Potosi eminently more drinkable than the ethylene glycol, with a cleaner finish.
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termuehlen 
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2012
Posts: 994
Location: Redwood City
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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AtlasShrugged it is really great to have you back. Hope you are doing well and won't take this first thread back as a deterrent to giving your input. I have relied on many of your past posts for top notch information over the years. Your knowledge is greatly valued here.
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Jeffrey Lee
Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2014
Posts: 1488
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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Math Alert!
With the aid of the aforementioned Snake Hollow IPA, I just realized that my previous calculations only factored for ONE theoretical coolant pipe, rather than the customary TWO pipes. This sort of numerical nonsense is exactly how very expensive space probes are lost. 
So, the difference in total fluid capacity between the two pipe diameters is approximately 72 fluid ounces, or 4.5 pints of Potosi Snake Hollow IPA.
That's roughly TWO additional quarts in an 18-quart cooling system, or about 10% more. Which is not negligible, but still unnecessary, IMHO.
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| khughes wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
| fxr wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
| Are the stainless steel pipes electrically isolated from the van chassis? They are certainly isolated from the engine by the rubber hoses. It seems like if they are isolated, they would add no threat of corrosion. Is this true? |
They are electrically connected via the coolant, which is slightly conductive |
Yes the coolant (as a mild electrolyte is a current path). My question is, if the pipes are isolated, what then......is the other current path? |
There isn't. You need the metal to metal contact to create a thermoelectric junction and lead to corrosion. |
The current path between the aluminium components such as the engine block and the stainless steel coolant pipes is the chassis - the coolant pipes are mounted with steel saddles screwed into the chassis (at least mine are using the original saddles on the 1.25" steel pipes) and the engine is earthed to the chassis. But if you change your coolant regularly it has corrosion inhibitors that would prevent the reaction happening anyway.
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squeegee_boy
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Joined: April 27, 2008
Posts: 762
Location: Langley, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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Re: Corrosion issues. I've had the SS pipes for about 13 years now. If there was going to be a corrosion issue I would have seen it.
Change your coolant, I do so every 2-3 years. The corrosion inhibitors take care of the problem as long as they're kept reasonably fresh.
Robyn
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khughes
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013
Posts: 747
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| khughes wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
| fxr wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
| Are the stainless steel pipes electrically isolated from the van chassis? They are certainly isolated from the engine by the rubber hoses. It seems like if they are isolated, they would add no threat of corrosion. Is this true? |
They are electrically connected via the coolant, which is slightly conductive |
Yes the coolant (as a mild electrolyte is a current path). My question is, if the pipes are isolated, what then......is the other current path? |
There isn't. You need the metal to metal contact to create a thermoelectric junction and lead to corrosion. |
The current path between the aluminium components such as the engine block and the stainless steel coolant pipes is the chassis - the coolant pipes are mounted with steel saddles screwed into the chassis (at least mine are using the original saddles on the 1.25" steel pipes) and the engine is earthed to the chassis. But if you change your coolant regularly it has corrosion inhibitors that would prevent the reaction happening anyway. |
You don't need a current path. You need the dissimilar metals to contact each other in the presence of a electrolyte for electrolytic corrosion, or without any electrolyte for a Seebeck thermoelectric effect. Either way, corrosion is only at the junction of the different metals. Unless you introduce an external current/voltage. Those are the only mechanisms for dissimilar metal corrosion I'm aware of.
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9610
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| khughes wrote: |
| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| khughes wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
| fxr wrote: |
| Sodo wrote: |
| Are the stainless steel pipes electrically isolated from the van chassis? They are certainly isolated from the engine by the rubber hoses. It seems like if they are isolated, they would add no threat of corrosion. Is this true? |
They are electrically connected via the coolant, which is slightly conductive |
Yes the coolant (as a mild electrolyte is a current path). My question is, if the pipes are isolated, what then......is the other current path? |
There isn't. You need the metal to metal contact to create a thermoelectric junction and lead to corrosion. |
The current path between the aluminium components such as the engine block and the stainless steel coolant pipes is the chassis - the coolant pipes are mounted with steel saddles screwed into the chassis (at least mine are using the original saddles on the 1.25" steel pipes) and the engine is earthed to the chassis. But if you change your coolant regularly it has corrosion inhibitors that would prevent the reaction happening anyway. |
You don't need a current path. You need the dissimilar metals to contact each other in the presence of a electrolyte for electrolytic corrosion, or without any electrolyte for a Seebeck thermoelectric effect. Either way, corrosion is only at the junction of the different metals. Unless you introduce an external current/voltage. Those are the only mechanisms for dissimilar metal corrosion I'm aware of. |
So....can stainless steel pipes increase "corrosive activity" anywhere in the system?
Where would this increased corrosive activity be?
There is no "other metal" touching the stainless pipe (inside).
And what if they were mounted with "insulation" (no path to gruond)?
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AtlasShrugged
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Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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"You don't need a current path. You need the dissimilar metals to contact each other in the presence of a electrolyte for electrolytic corrosion"
No worries about SS coolant pipes and a dissimilar metals/electrolyte/corrosion problem.
You already have four big ferrous metal jugs (the piston cylinders) and sixteen steel rods (head studs) in contact with aluminum swimming in hot coolant all the time.
[/u] |
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Jake de Villiers
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Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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I repaired my plastic pipes at the time of my Subaru installation almost ten years and ~80,000 miles ago and haven't heard a peep from them since!
Heated the pipes and tapped the steel inserts back in, then secured them with a couple of rivets each. Easy peasy - and very inexpensive. 
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khughes
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013
Posts: 747
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
"You don't need a current path. You need the dissimilar metals to contact each other in the presence of a electrolyte for electrolytic corrosion"
You already have four big ferrous metal jugs (the piston cylinders) and sixteen steel rods (head studs) in contact with aluminum swimming in hot coolant all the time. |
Well...*you* might.
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jimf909
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Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7469
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| termuehlen wrote: |
| AtlasShrugged it is really great to have you back. Hope you are doing well and won't take this first thread back as a deterrent to giving your input. I have relied on many of your past posts for top notch information over the years. Your knowledge is greatly valued here. |
I was working my way to the end of this thread to say the same thing. A few folks here have rock-solid credibility behind their advice. You're one of 'em. Thanks.
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| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9610
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
"You don't need a current path. You need the dissimilar metals to contact each other in the presence of a electrolyte for electrolytic corrosion"
No worries about SS coolant pipes and a dissimilar metals/electrolyte/corrosion problem. |
The stainless pipes have no electrical contact with any of the "other engine or radiator metals" inside the coolant....
My thought is that there is NO corrosion concern because there is no contact.
I think this is what people want to "KNOW"....without "speculation".
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
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Zeitgeist 13
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Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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Shark jumping 101:
This thread disappoints, as we haven't even discussed types of coolant, coolant filters, sacrificial anodes, magnets or even healing crystals.
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AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| jimf909 wrote: |
| termuehlen wrote: |
| AtlasShrugged it is really great to have you back. Hope you are doing well and won't take this first thread back as a deterrent to giving your input. I have relied on many of your past posts for top notch information over the years. Your knowledge is greatly valued here. |
I was working my way to the end of this thread to say the same thing. A few folks here have rock-solid credibility behind their advice. You're one of 'em. Thanks. |
You all are most welcome and I appreciate the fellowship.
[Moderator edit: Inflammatory second paragraph removed by request.] |
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Selsk
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Joined: January 17, 2015
Posts: 135
Location: LA, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| This thread was an unexpectedly wild ride. Thanks for all the responses. I am going to order the GW stainless kit. |
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khughes
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013
Posts: 747
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| Selsk wrote: |
| This thread was an unexpectedly wild ride. Thanks for all the responses. I am going to order the GW stainless kit. |
Indeed - just to reiterate in case it was lost in the melee, the GW kit will not work with some conversions (like my GenV FAS kit) without modification at the engine end. No biggie if you're staying stock, and I'm sure the quality is fine, just a reminder
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khughes
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013
Posts: 747
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Coolant Pipes |
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| khughes wrote: |
| Selsk wrote: |
| This thread was an unexpectedly wild ride. Thanks for all the responses. I am going to order the GW stainless kit. |
Indeed - just to reiterate in case it was lost in the melee, the GW kit will not work with some conversions (like my GenV FAS kit) without modification at the engine end. No biggie if you're staying stock, and I'm sure the quality is fine, just a reminder |
Correction - brainfart, the FAS kit will work with the GW or other currently marketed s/s pipes for 86 and later years.
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