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markf1
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Telluride, Colorado
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 Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:31 pm Post subject: Replace brake light switch |
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I noticed the brake lights were not working on our 1986 Westfalia Syncro. We just had major work done including replace clutch slave cylinder and “flush clutch hydraulic system” (not really sure what the mech meant by that)
Anyway, following GF back from shop I noticed no brake lights. Not sure when or how long they have been out. Read up on it on the forum here and learned some good stuff. Fuse OK, both lights out so probably not bulbs. Headlights, parking lights, back up lights, turn signals All working.
I followed a tactic I read about here. Remove instrument cluster to gain access to brake light switch(s). Pulled wire connector plug off front most switch, jumper across terminals inside connector plug. Brake lights came on.
So appears front most switch is bad. My question, is there any reason to replace both switches or is OK to replace only the front most, easiest to remove and replace, switch?
Another thing is the hazard lights don’t work. I have not yet researched this, but wondering, do those switches go bad? Maybe I should replace the hazard switch while I have the other stuff taken apart?
Thanks in advance for any advice
_________________
1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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| markf1 wrote: |
I noticed the brake lights were not working on our 1986 Westfalia Syncro. We just had major work done including replace clutch slave cylinder and “flush clutch hydraulic system” (not really sure what the mech meant by that)
Remove instrument cluster to gain access to brake light switch(s). Pulled wire connector plug off front most switch, jumper across terminals inside connector plug. Brake lights came on.
My question, is there any reason to replace both switches or is OK to replace only the front most,.....
Thanks in advance for any advice |
Was instrument cover removed to do clutch slave replacement or, did hazards fail after u removed cluster?
I recently had my hazards stop working. I'd had the instrument cluster off. Turns out the issue was a loose wire at hazard light switch plug.
Since the brake lights stopped working and a fault was found at a brake switch, id suggest both have failed. Of feasible use a meter to confirm of both switches are bad then if they are, replace both brake switches. With only one functioning switch, it usually requires more pedal effort to light up the brake lights.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9798
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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| markf1 wrote: |
| ...So appears front most switch is bad. My question, is there any reason to replace both switches or is OK to replace only the front most... |
It is my recollection that you still have brake lights when one pressure switch had failed (but you possibly get a warning with the dash 'brake' light). It is when the 2nd switch fails that you have no brake lights at all.
In any case - it isn't really a big deal to replace both. That one that looks hard to get at can be reached with a deep socket on a long 3/8" extension - may have to push some wires out of the way to sneak in there.
I only undo connectors to left side of instrument cluster (e.g. headlight switch) thing just swing the thing out of the way and hold it with a bungee.
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markf1
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Telluride, Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Was instrument cover removed to do clutch slave replacement or, did hazards fail after u removed cluster?
I recently had my hazards stop working. I'd had the instrument cluster off. Turns out the issue was a loose wire at hazard light switch plug. With only one functioning switch, it usually requires more pedal effort to light up the brake lights. |
Thanks you both for your helpful replies. I will replace both switches. I do not have a 22mm deep well,socket and only a somewhat short 3/8” extension. May have to buy those, which will likely cost more or as,much as the two switches. It almost looks like it might be feasible to do with a small crescent, which I do have.
Instrument cluster was not removed by shop that put in new clutch slave cylinder. Hazard lights were not working before latest work was done. Confirmed because we found out they did not work when we broke down last fall and had to get towed and the incurred the transaxle rebuild, new clutch work.
I have been searching online for a new hazard light switch but not finding any. Can anyone point me to a source for replacement hazard light switch?
Thanks!
_________________
1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9798
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:16 am Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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| markf1 wrote: |
| ...I do not have a 22mm deep well,socket... |
Me neither - I did it with something that was in the tool box, possibly a deep 7/8" socket? |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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| markf1 wrote: |
Thanks you both for your helpful replies. I will replace both switches. I do not have a 22mm deep well,socket and only a somewhat short 3/8” extension. May have to buy those, which will likely cost more or as,much as the two switches. It almost looks like it might be feasible to do with a small crescent, which I do have.
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On my 1988 Westy 2wd, the 2 connector made in Spain switches I was sold had different spacing than the connectors so I removed wires from connectors and put shrink wrap on each terminal.
image of made in Spain part box:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726039&highlight=brake+light+switch
Crescent wrench should work. I'm not sure if I tried a deep socket but I think I did and there wasn't room for it. I used a crescent wrench and a 22 mm combo wrench and as a last resort, removed a bolt at a dash bracket, loosened the other and pushed bracket aside. The forward bracket bolt is tricky to get at though.
A 22 mm combo wrench is handy to own regardless.
Do not over torque the switches. They have a tapered thread so will feel tight after a couple turns. Count turns to remove old ones to use as reference for install of new.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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markf1
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Telluride, Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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Good advice and info Neil. Thanks!
_________________
1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
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markf1
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Telluride, Colorado
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17117
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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You want the switches that don't require modifying the wiring plug or the switch to get them to fit. Not sure who has what.
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markf1
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Telluride, Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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Hi Mark Ward. Not sure how to tell if they would need modification. Definitely don’t want a switch that requires modifications.
Here is a wrench I’m thinking might be just the tool to use.
uxcell Reversible Ratcheting Wrench, 19mm x 22mm Offset Double Box End, Cr-V https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R4NXQLR/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ElJjEb8MT45F0
$12 free shipping with amazon prime, returnable if need be.
_________________
1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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Perhaps you noticed the remark on that Van Cafe page where they say they don't bother to stock the cheap unreliable switches.
Or maybe you're looking forward to replacing those switches several times!  
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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markf1
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Telluride, Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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I did not notice that, but now that you point it out.....
The photo of the $20 switch on van cafe is the exact same photo as the one of the $5 switch on bus depot. Not sure that means they are selling the same switch. I may call bus depot and see if they can tell me the manufacturer of the switch they sell.
My guess the ATE brand van cafe switch is a better switch.
2 switches at $20 each won’t sink our ship but if we can get the same switch for $5 each we would be happy to save a bit.
_________________
1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
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markf1
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Telluride, Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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GoWesty and van cafe both sell the ATE switch. Bus depot sells a Jopex switch. Can’t say if one is better than the other. $20 versus $5. Higher cost is not always better quality.
Bus depot says he research and only stock quality parts.
_________________
1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17117
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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The switches that require modifying from memory have a molded in plastic tab between the spade connectors on the switch.
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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| markf1 wrote: |
GoWesty and van cafe both sell the ATE switch. Bus depot sells a Jopex switch. Can’t say if one is better than the other. $20 versus $5. Higher cost is not always better quality.
Bus depot says he research and only stock quality parts. |
I don't mean to disparage Bus Depot but the reason Van Cafe has been my vendor of choice for many, many years is that they use the parts they sell to the customer to service our Vanagons.
You're going to find out very quickly that way which parts are best, as warranty repair work is a quick ticket to bankruptcy.
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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markf1
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Telluride, Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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| MarkWard wrote: |
| The switches that require modifying from memory have a molded in plastic tab between the spade connectors on the switch. |
I saw a photo of that one in my google search results. It's a Bosch.(None of the 3 places I've sourced sell that one.)
_________________
1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
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markf1
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Telluride, Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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Update. I got the less expensive switch, I found no negative comments about it and the bus depot guy stood by it9s quality.
I replaced the front most switch and the brake lights started working again. I was able to get a wrench on the other harder to access switch, but I could not turn it even exerting a crazy amount of force. Next would be getting a pipe over the wrench but clearance is tight and need just the right size pipe,
In the photo above from Ahwahnee you can see the two switches. There is a little bit of space between the body of the switch and the body of the master brake cylinder. The front switch on our van looked like that. The other, problematic switch, did not have that space. Like previous person tightened it all the way up to the point that little space was gone and the switch is bottomed out right up tight against the master cylinder. Over tightened I think. So I left that old switch in place, even though I had intended to replace it. Decided to cut my losses and be happy with getting the brake lights working and not break something trying to back out that stuck switch.
Thanks to all who gave advice and help!
_________________
1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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Good catch. Assuming that the OP overtightened that switch, very wise of you to leave it be for now. I bet the switch metal is not exactly hard so an overtightened switch might be prone to shearing off [edit] when trying to remove it ??
re: checking space between switch and MC body. Good tip to remember. Thanks for posting what you found.
Neil.
| markf1 wrote: |
.... The other, problematic switch, did not have that space. Like previous person tightened it all the way up to the point that little space was gone and the switch is bottomed out right up tight against the master cylinder. Over tightened I think. So I left that old switch in place, even though I had intended to replace it. Decided to cut my losses and be happy with getting the brake lights working and not break something trying to back out that stuck switch.
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_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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ALIKA T3
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Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6349
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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markf1
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Telluride, Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Replace brake light switch |
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Thank you ALIKA. Note- We have the two prong switches and a 22mm wrench fits on them just right. I don't have a 22mm deep well socket or a long enough extension. I did have a 22mm box end offset ratcheting wrench that I got on the switch from above. Still lacked clearance, I was able to put a small crescent on it and had enough room to make a bit of a turn but could not budge it even applying extreme force.
_________________
1986 Westfalia Syncro
2.1 L Waterboxer
Some Westy supported adventure photos:
https://www.openrangeimaging.com/adventure.html |
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