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Westy circuit breaker source?
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kshbaja
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Westy circuit breaker source? Reply with quote

Is the circuit breaker a common circuit breaker that can be found in an electrical supply store? Is GW the only source? $20 seems a bit excessive.
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Lanval
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More info would be helpful here ~ Van year/model, and what you intend to do with the circuit breaker. Most anything that can be done with a Vanagon (westy or otherwise) has been done, so if you explain what you want to do in detail, you're likely to get an answer in detail.


As an example, I installed an aux battery with a 6 circuit fuse box to run everything behind the seats on the aux when isolated. Is this what you're after? Are you re-doing the 120v circuit at the foot of the bed? If so, why even bother? How often do you use 120v? I replaced mine (GW version) and have yet to solder it in, or use it.


Best,

Lanval
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kshbaja
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about that. I was referring to the stock circuit breaker of a 1986 Westy. It sits just forward of the rear bench seat on the driver side. Full stock electrical configuration. I just want to replace it as the button on mine is snapped off.
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Lanval
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just paid Go Westy. Still, I don't see how a 120v circuit breaker in a van is any different from a house... I can't recall if the rating is marked on the old one. I'm sure the manual says, or somewhere in the manuals (OEM or Aftermarket) it should indicate what the breaker trips at. Once you're there, I guess you could go to any home supply place and try to replace it.

Electrical experts care to comment?

Best,

Lanval
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terryg
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing that the circuit breaker is there due to some RV electrical code applied to Westies. 120v breakers make sense in RV because there are multiple circuits so you would not have the whole RV to loose power because the coffee pot shorted out. But the Westy only has one circuit, so if anything happens all power is lost anyway. The other silly part is that if you plug into a campsite or the plug on the side of your garage, they are both already protected with circuit breakers so you really don't even need one. There might be some scenario where the Westy circuit breaker would be useful, but it would entail a van load of 120v appliances and/or some poorly thought out added wiring/extension cords. I'ld take it out and spend $3 on wire nuts and a pretty blank plate to cover the hole.
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82WestyMan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terryg wrote:
... I'd take it out and spend $3 on wire nuts and a pretty blank plate to cover the hole.


Or do what I did...
used that place for a dedicated (and labeled) outlet from my inverter...
upper = "Shore Power"
lower = "Inverter Power"
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bucko
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to Home Depot, Lowes, or any good hardware store. Buy a GFI (ground fault interrupt) and new cover. GFI's are used in 110/120V home applications where water and electricity are an issue (bathroom, kitchen, outside outlets). Much, much better protection than the breaker that came stock.

They are found where the electrical outlets, boxes, and such are located at these hardware stores.

terryg wrote:
... I'd take it out and spend $3 on wire nuts and a pretty blank plate to cover the hole.


I would not recommend this...no protection to you if you use an electrical hookup at a campground. You cannot count on the campground hookups being "up to code".
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucko wrote:
Go to Home Depot, Lowes, or any good hardware store. Buy a GFI (ground fault interrupt) and new cover. GFI's are used in 110/120V home applications where water and electricity are an issue (bathroom, kitchen, outside outlets). Much, much better protection than the breaker that came stock.

They are found where the electrical outlets, boxes, and such are located at these hardware stores.

terryg wrote:
... I'd take it out and spend $3 on wire nuts and a pretty blank plate to cover the hole.


I would not recommend this...no protection to you if you use an electrical hookup at a campground. You cannot count on the campground hookups being "up to code".

Bingo______Add protection not remove it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucko wrote:
Go to Home Depot, Lowes, or any good hardware store. Buy a GFI (ground fault interrupt) and new cover. GFI's are used in 110/120V home applications where water and electricity are an issue (bathroom, kitchen, outside outlets). Much, much better protection than the breaker that came stock.


Double bingo. I changed the outlet near the back seat into a GFCI outlet and correctly wired the under-sink outlet to it, so it's protected as well. I then bought a blank outlet cover to go over the bottom opening where the circuit breaker had been, but modded it into a 12V oulet.
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PDXWesty
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

**READ** **READ** **READ** **READ** **READ** **READ**

A GFCI outlet is NOT a circuit breaker. I repeat: IT IS NOT A CIRCUIT BREAKER. It does not protect against current overload. It protects against ground fault and short circuits only. The circuit breaker is there ahead of the outlet to protect the wiring from melting if you plug in a greater load than the wiring can handle. You run the risk of fire if you don't have a circuit breaker ahead of ANY type of outlet. A GFCI will not trip on current overload. If you plugged in a 15 amp load or greater (1800 watts) to the outlet without the breaker, you could melt the wires and start a fire.

**Please do NOT remove the breaker and just wire a GFCI outlet. You will lose all protection to the circuit.**

If you want, you can add a GFCI outlet to protect against shorts, but you still need the breaker ahead of it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: grainger whole sale and supply Reply with quote

kshbaja

Check grainger wholesale and supply the only thing differant is the one from CARLING TECHNOLOGIES is rated at 32vdc where as the one in the slot is rated at 50vdc

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4VA78

http://www.carlingtech.com/products/index.asp

You mite be able to talk to carlingtons tech support to verify that this will work. For $2.77 this mite be worth the call and easy fix.

good luck

dp
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bucko
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PDXWesty wrote:
**READ** **READ** **READ** **READ** **READ** **READ**

A GFCI outlet is NOT a circuit breaker. I repeat: IT IS NOT A CIRCUIT BREAKER. It does not protect against current overload. It protects against ground fault and short circuits only. The circuit breaker is there ahead of the outlet to protect the wiring from melting if you plug in a greater load than the wiring can handle. You run the risk of fire if you don't have a circuit breaker ahead of ANY type of outlet. A GFCI will not trip on current overload. If you plugged in a 15 amp load or greater (1800 watts) to the outlet without the breaker, you could melt the wires and start a fire.

**Please do NOT remove the breaker and just wire a GFCI outlet. You will lose all protection to the circuit.**

If you want, you can add a GFCI outlet to protect against shorts, but you still need the breaker ahead of it.
I totally agree with you in that the breaker VW (or westfalia) installed is acting like the circuit breakers we have in our homes. However, I figured the GFCI also works as a circuit breaker too, as it trips and kills the flow of current if it jumps past 20 amps (or whatever rated GFCI you bought). Is this wrong thinking? Please educate me if I'm wrong.
As to wiring, my Westy (and I believe all of them do) have the standard household gauge 3 wires (white, black, and ground), and should handle 20 to 30 amp draw.
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can still achieve the dual use on the outlet. I made my duplex outlet into two simplex units. You can achieve this with virtually any 110 socket. THere are two tabs on either side, the connect the upper to lower socket. If you break this tab (which it is designed to do, by bending) then the two are separate circuits. So I wired the lower one to the normal shore power circuit, and the upper one is wired to my hidden inverter.

Yes GFI's are cool for shocks and such, but no circuit protection. A breaker is a breaker. That said, there are ratings for voltage, current and rate of trip. Some trip on a surge of load, some wait a bit. So if you get one of equal load rating, voltage and trip rate you would be fine. The big problem is form factor, most are designed for mounting on rails now. So you are kind of paying for uniqueness again.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PDXWesty
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just use a circuit breaker....they're cheap.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle...sNum=14180

(reading)
GFCI is an electrical wiring device that disconnects a circuit whenever it detects that the electric current is not balanced between the phase ("hot") conductor and the neutral conductor. Such an imbalance is sometimes caused by current leakage through the body of a person who is grounded and accidentally touching the energized part of the circuit

GFI's are designed to prevent electrocution by detecting the leakage current, which can be far smaller (typically 530 milliamperes) than the currents needed to operate conventional circuit breakers or fuses (several amperes). GFIs are intended to operate within 2540 milliseconds, before electric shock can drive the heart into ventricular fibrillation, the most common cause of death through electric shock.

In the United States, the National Electrical Code, requires GFCI devices intended to protect people to interrupt the circuit if the leakage current exceeds a range of 46 mA of current (the trip setting is typically 5 mA) within 25 milliseconds. GFCI devices which protect equipment (not people) are allowed to trip as high as 30 mA of current. In Europe, the commonly used RCDs have trip currents of 10300 mA.

Residual current detection is complementary to over-current detection. Residual current detection cannot provide protection for overload or short-circuit currents.

So...It measures the current in the two wires to make sure they are equal. It does not protect against short circuit or overload.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep the standard pulg, replace the breaker with a GFI breaker. Ground fault AND over current protection.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: westy circuit breaker source? Reply with quote

Hi all.

Anyone found a suitable 15 Amp breaker at their local hardware or home depot type store?

Thanks

Neil.
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shagginwagon83
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: westy circuit breaker source? Reply with quote

Perfect timing. I am also in the market for a new circuit breaker as I'm relocating mine to be hidden in my Westy.

My research has showed Blue Seas makes circuit breakers. I don't know if they make it, but I would love to have a remote control circuit breaker.

Edit:
I found one. Its a 20amp model.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Home depot has a 15amp model.
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: westy circuit breaker source? Reply with quote

Maybe this?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DH35VZQ/ref=twister_B01LYLZ9U4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: westy circuit breaker source? Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
Maybe this?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DH35VZQ/ref=twister_B01LYLZ9U4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


Thanks Mark. Just ordered a starter motor from amazon; too late to include that part! lol. Wink

Hadn't thought to look up via "DC" as per breaker you linked to.

The existing breaker appears to have push on connectors that are very well insulated. I see amazon has these with push on connectors

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Connect-Ci...amp;sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/RKURCK-125-250V-Circuit-Ove...6e7b0f409c

Neil.
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1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: westy circuit breaker source? Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:


I see amazon has these with push on connectors

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Connect-Ci...amp;sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/RKURCK-125-250V-Circuit-Ove...6e7b0f409c

Neil.


I'm going to order both to compare quality, at least visually.

I'll post images later but it looks like both of these breakers are quite similar in size to what I assume is an OE westfalia breaker in my '81 Westy. It still works but was hard to reset last time it blew and may be getting flakey (has a bimetallic strip? Its seen too many heat cycles?)

Blue sea Push Button Reset Only Quick Connect Circuit Breaker - 15 Amps
7056

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


RKURCK 125-250V AC 50V DC Push Button Circuit Breaker 15Amp Thermal Overload Protector L1 Series Manual Reset Thermal Circuit Breaker 15A

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Didn't bother looking for image of Blue Sea part showing same but this shows what *looks like* a flat portion on threaded shaft

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

VE7TBN
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