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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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TomWesty wrote: |
If your generator pulley ( the one with the shims) is slipping much while trying to turn the crankshaft pulley, then you need to take a shim or 2 from between the halves and this will tighten the pinch on the belt a bit. Put the removed shims on the outside of the generator pulley under the nut, so you still have them on the shaft and your total thickness doesn’t change. With 3verything tightened down and the belt running true, you should have about 1/2” to 3/4” deflection when you push on the outside of the belt at midpoint between pulleys. In your travels, you ordered a Bentley and or a Muir manual right? Right? I can’t tell if there is fuel in the filter or not from here. If it’s empty, then that is a problem. |
I just removed 3 shims and left 3 shims inside the generator pulley.
hand tightened the nut using a socket and then used a screwdriver to hold the pulley while I completed the final tightening of the nut.
this appears to have put more tension on the belt and it looks like 1/2-3/4 deflection when i push on the outside of the belt at the midpoint.
at first I removed 4 shims leaving 2 inside the pulley but I didn't seem to give me enough deflection, so I took it apart and went with 3.
Looks good to me, thanks for the encouragement.
Last edited by 1FineOLD69 on Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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Wildthings wrote: |
1FineOLD69 wrote: |
Ok I removed the nut on the small top pulley, then removed the pulley its self to count the shims. I have 6 shims total. |
When tightening the nut the pulleys will tend to compress the belt, verses tighten against each other. You need to pretty much continually turn the upper pulley so that the belt will keep working outward as the nut is tightened. When the nut of properly tightened the two halves of the pulley will be touching each other in their centers. You need to use a screwdriver to keep the upper pulley from turning when you do the final bit of tightening.
Not sure how many shims there are to start with, but I think more than six.
Assuming the flow through the filter is bottom to top, then the filter should be full of fuel. How much fuel is in your tank? Do you have a mechanical or electric pump? |
I got to thinking about what Wild Things was saying about "assuming the flow through the filter is bottom to top (which it is) then the filter should be full of fuel.
Wild Things asked me how much fuel was in my tank. (I had 3 gallons in it)
After thinking about enough gravity to force the fuel through the fuel lines, I decided to go get some more gas. (2more gallons) for a total of 5 gallons in the tank.
after adding the extra 2 gallons I noticed fuel had made its way up into the fuel filter sitting at about halfway in the fuel filter its self.
So I decided it was time to turn the key and give it a try.
Well friends I'm happy to report back that it fired up !!!
I let her run for 10 minuets and took her for a 10 mile roundtrip drive to go fill up the fuel tank.
She's running good considering its the first time I'm had her on the road in four years.
Now I can get back to the body work and interior job I've been planning for years.
I wanna thank everyone who contributed to this thread for giving me the confidence to push through until we got her fired up.
And keep an eye out for a new thread ill be starting since I can now get back to replacing my wooden headliner.
I already have my 5x5 1/8'' baltic birch sheets and am now able to get back to that project.
Thanks you Tom Westy and Wild Things and everyone else for your support.
Last edited by 1FineOLD69 on Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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I would recommend adding some FI cleaner to a full tank of fuel and some upper cylinder wall lube (like MMO) to the fuel as well. Old ethanol laced fuel is well known for causing problems when a rig that has been sitting for a long time is put back into service. |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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Wildthings wrote: |
I would recommend adding some FI cleaner to a full tank of fuel and some upper cylinder wall lube (like MMO) to the fuel as well. Old ethanol laced fuel is well known for causing problems when a rig that has been sitting for a long time is put back into service. |
Thank you for those tips I'll go get both of those first thing tomorrow and add them directly onto my fuel tank |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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Nice.
Glad to hear you are up and rocking.
Modern fuels don't last for squat.
They will evaporate away and leave you with goo in your tank in just a few months.
Take the thing for a long drive and run a whole tank through.
Modern gas will also eat natural rubber.
Be sure to replace all of your fuel lines with modern hose compatible with today's gas.
If the fuel lines turn to taffy your bus will burn down!
Dag, I had an extra idiot manual for you.
That guy with the blue bus across the 9 from that German restaurant in Ben Lomond gave it to me just last week. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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Wildthings wrote: |
kreemoweet wrote: |
I've never been able to turn the crank on any of my VW's by spinning the gen/alt pulley,
unless I first took the spark plugs out. If I could, I'd say I had some pretty miserable
compression pressures. |
I do it all the time by hand, I use my thumb to press on the slack side of the belt to increase the tension. |
^^^^This^^^^
You don't want your belt too tight, or it will damage generator bearings.
You don't want it too loose or it will slip when you are driving.
If it slips when you try and turn the motor over using the generator nut,
But if you give the belt some tension by pushing on it, and then the motor will be turned over,
you are probably pretty close. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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I did notice this dash light on when i was out for a drive today, however I think I recall this light always being on.
Can anyone tell we what this light is?
it has a G on it so i assume its the generator light
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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it means the generator / alternator either isn't turning or it is not putting out electricity. When it is on you are (1) running on the battery for a max of about 200 miles, and (2) if the belt broke again you are cooking your engine and it will seize about a mile or two after you noticed it. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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SGKent wrote: |
it means the generator / alternator either isn't turning or it is not putting out electricity. When it is on you are (1) running on the battery for a max of about 200 miles, and (2) if the belt broke again you are cooking your engine and it will seize about a mile or two after you noticed it. |
Is there a way I can test the generator before I go through the trouble of replacing it?
I believe it was replaced during my last tune up and then parked and never really used it since. It certainly does look like a shiny new part.
how likely is it that the light is just on and the generator actually does work?
Could it be due to the belt being to tight ? and I need to add a shim? |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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I realize now that when the Dash light is functioning properly for the generator that its a good early warning of a broken belt while you are driving.
therefor I would very much like to be sure this light is indeed functioning properly.
So if I understand correctly under normal conditions this light would not be on?
and only lights up if there is 1) a broken belt? or 2) faulty generator? |
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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3482 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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If that light is on, your generator is not functioning properly. It could be as simple as the blue wire being broken. I believe the light comes on when you first turn the key and should go out when the engine begins running. If your belt is okay, then it could be a number of things causing the light. At any rate, it is currently not charging your battery. _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:14 am Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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get a hold of Steve (Clatter) in Santa Cruz since you say you are there. He can help you but you need to ask what his shop rate is.I don't know but he is your best person to talk with, and any of us would have no problem paying him to assist us with a problem. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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alman72 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 2573 Location: MICHIGAN
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:44 am Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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a voltmeter to the battery before you start it, record volts, and again after you start it. this will tell you if the generator is running.
sitting charged battery, like 12.5-12.7ish
running bus, 13.6ish |
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crownline Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010 Posts: 593 Location: Northwoods of WI
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:29 am Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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Sir Bentley can help with most issues and how things function. Its green and is about 1.5 inches thick . Grab a beer. Good reading material. _________________ 1972 Bus 1700 cc Single Carb. But not a progressive.
Barelymuvin
Wish I still had the ones I got rid of.
"It"s got some dings and dents and neither of us is going to SEMA."(Update, I went to SEMA in 2019 but the Bus stayed home)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-8446.png]Click to view image[/URL] |
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Bulli Klinik Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005 Posts: 2079 Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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1FineOLD69 wrote: |
I realize now that when the Dash light is functioning properly for the generator that its a good early warning of a broken belt while you are driving.
therefor I would very much like to be sure this light is indeed functioning properly.
So if I understand correctly under normal conditions this light would not be on?
and only lights up if there is 1) a broken belt? or 2) faulty generator? |
Yes, or a bad voltage regulator or bad/incorrect wiring.
Disconnect the ground on the battery while running and see if it dies.
Then dig out your Idiot book and see the chapter 'red light on'. Doesn't get much simpler than that. Might be simple as brushes not making contact from sitting for so long. _________________ I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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Get away from the car and read the MUIR book. You are on the cool part of the learning curve where every nugget is a delicious meal of knowledge.
If you get smart and quick, you can pick up a hAlfday with Robbie at your house and learn yourself some Buggie.
Airschooled.com _________________ .ssS! |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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Abscate wrote: |
Get away from the car and read the MUIR book. You are on the cool part of the learning curve where every nugget is a delicious meal of knowledge.
If you get smart and quick, you can pick up a hAlfday with Robbie at your house and learn yourself some Buggie.
Airschooled.com |
Thanks for the info, Robbie's webpage looks neat. what a great idea! |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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Ok guys and gals, I picked up my new copy of the John Muir book and also a voltmeter today.
So tomorrow I'll be getting down to the bottom of the generator light issue. Pressing on the brushes didn't turn the light off so I'm afraid its not as simple as a sticky generator brush.
I'll report back what I find. I watched a few good youtube videos on how to trouble shoot the generator with my new voltmeter so I have a good idea of a starting point. |
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Jody '71 Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005 Posts: 2842 Location: Manassas VA
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Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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Since you say you had your generator replaced recently, I doubt the brushes are worn down. It could be an entire faulty rebuilt unit, or a brand new cheap Chinese knock- off gone bad already. I would suspect the voltage regulator may be part of this problem if it's original and has never been replaced. You can get new ones now that are solid state and are more reliable. That generator on there should be a 30 amp unit which was stock for model year 1969. I'm pretty sure they were 30 amps for that year. My '71 had a 38 amp generator. The VR should match the generator....
The good thing with all of this is, you know your generator warning light still functions in your dash!!! Don't leave home without it!!!!!!
And here's another tip: If you look up top here and click on "Technical" and scroll down to "owners' manuals" you'll find yours if you don't have it. THEN, as added bonus, you can find the complete electrical schematic for your 69 Bus. And the wiring is in color!!!!
As mentioned, get the Bentley manual for Late Bus '68-'79. BIG help, the Muir book is fine for Beetles but you really should have the Bentley book for Bus......I think Haynes used to publish Bus manuals but I don't know if they still can be found anywhere _________________ '66 Beetle
2011 Hyundai Elantra Touring |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:10 am Post subject: Re: My belt broke & I replaced it but 69 VW will not turn over HELP |
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I think Robbie is up that way soon, and you can saves travel costs if you split the bill with other clients, so reach out quickly! _________________ .ssS! |
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