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JoMoSqBk Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2019 Posts: 43 Location: MO
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Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:18 pm Post subject: Spark plug confusion |
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I went to swap the plugs with what the form recommends B5HS NGKs. I had a hell of a time pulling the old plug and finally tried some deep sockets and pulled out a DP8EA. This is a very different plug much thinner and longer reach. Has someone done something to my head? What should I put back? |
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blues90 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2009 Posts: 1912 Location: Hollywood ,CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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Sounds like the heads were changed at some point. Stock VW heads had 1/2" reach like the plugs you were installing. I'm pretty sure if you use the long reach plugs in a stoke VW head they will hit the piston tops.
You need to have a plug out and see how long the head threads are. You should be able to see one of the rear plug holes with a mirror and flash light. Or take a stiff wire bend a bit of a 90 degree bend insert and pull up till it stops . Make the wire a certain length when it hooks measure from the rod end till the ruler hits where the plug seats. The difference will give you the reach. If the plugs you removed are narrower across the threads then the B5HS then I would say the heads have been changed. Most all replacement heads have the longer reach.
Maybe post photo's of the old compared to the new. |
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JoMoSqBk Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2019 Posts: 43 Location: MO
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Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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Sounds like they are longer reach (and 18mm) I guess I'll go back with what's in here maybe drop them down to 6's instead of 8s though. |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13842 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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Not uncommon to have heads with long reach plugs. The heads are sold with long reach plug holes. Some cases a performance head.
Just source out the replacement spark plugs. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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Wait....wait....wait.
Do not make the assumption that you have long reach plug holes.....until you PROVE IT.
From the factory they came with short reach plugs.....and its even more common that somone....incorrectly..... INSTALLED long reach plugs on heads with short reach holes.
You noted that the plugs were hard to remove....right? This IS the common problem when someone has installed long reach plugs in short,reach holes.....because carbon builds up in the exposed threads making them difficult....and eventually....impossible to remove without damaging the threads in the head.
Verify what you have before assuming somone installed aftermarket heads with long reach plug bores. Ray |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
Wait....wait....wait.
Do not make the assumption that you have long reach plug holes.....until you PROVE IT.
From the factory they came with short reach plugs.....and its even more common that somone....incorrectly..... INSTALLED long reach plugs on heads with short reach holes.
You noted that the plugs were hard to remove....right? This IS the common problem when someone has installed long reach plugs in short,reach holes.....because carbon builds up in the exposed threads making them difficult....and eventually....impossible to remove without damaging the threads in the head.
Verify what you have before assuming somone installed aftermarket heads with long reach plug bores. Ray |
ehh, maybe a long time ago but more and more replacement heads have these 12mm "motorcycle" plugs. You will see, the thread size is very different, hot dog in a hallway comes to mind...
anyhow, I recommend NGK plugs and the 9 is fine. NGK are backwards, 6 is hotter than 9
_________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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blues90 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2009 Posts: 1912 Location: Hollywood ,CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
Wait....wait....wait.
Do not make the assumption that you have long reach plug holes.....until you PROVE IT.
From the factory they came with short reach plugs.....and its even more common that somone....incorrectly..... INSTALLED long reach plugs on heads with short reach holes.
You noted that the plugs were hard to remove....right? This IS the common problem when someone has installed long reach plugs in short,reach holes.....because carbon builds up in the exposed threads making them difficult....and eventually....impossible to remove without damaging the threads in the head.
Verify what you have before assuming somone installed aftermarket heads with long reach plug bores. Ray |
I've never seen short reach plugs with the smaller dia thread in any vw air cooled or have i read about them being used and many all new VW replacement heads have gone to the long each . I haven't paid much attention to replacement heads . I do know I used a thread chaser to remove any carbon in my stock short reach heads and the chaser is shorter than a long each plug if I put a long reach in it would hit the piston. |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13842 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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If the picture above shows that the plug on the right was in the engine and the one on the left was going to go in the engine.
Not sure if this is correct will have to see what JoMoSqBk says.
Looks like a long reach plug heads. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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JoMoSqBk Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2019 Posts: 43 Location: MO
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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The long reach I took out is a much smaller diameter and the thicker b5hs had no hope of going in. I had the compressions tested just a few months ago and it was 110 in all cylinders with these smaller plugs they just didn't tell me it was an odd plug. I replaced with almost the same plug I pulled they did not have the DP but looking at the NGK site that is a premium platinum and should make much difference. |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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JoMoSqBk wrote: |
The long reach I took out is a much smaller diameter and the thicker b5hs had no hope of going in. I had the compressions tested just a few months ago and it was 110 in all cylinders with these smaller plugs they just didn't tell me it was an odd plug. I replaced with almost the same plug I pulled they did not have the DP but looking at the NGK site that is a premium platinum and should make much difference. |
they will be fine. I prefer regular copper plugs. The platinum do not run better in an old VW, they just go longer without needing to be changed _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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The heads most likely require a 12mm plug with a 3/4" reach. Stock VW heads use a 14mm plug with a 1/2" reach. Mexican heads use a 14mm with a 3/4" reach.
The stock hear range for NGK is "5". A "9" is way too cold. If you have higher compression you can use a colder plug. I have 9.5:1 and use a "6" heat range. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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As Eric noted.....the heads may not be original. I was speaking of original heads. Either way my point still stands. Dont screw anything in....until you VERIFY what you have.
That being said.....if the long reach plug you took out....has smaller diameter threads as well....it could also be that someone has installed a thread insert.
As I said.....find out what is in your heads. Ray |
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tandemtwins Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2018 Posts: 35 Location: Williston, FL
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Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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Here's a question related to this topic.
I don't know which heads I've got... although I suspect the heads which take long reach plugs. (Pretty sure it's a Mexican engine; the valve adjustment nuts are 15mm as opposed to 13mm.)
Until I'm able to verify the length of the plug hole, is it okay to run short reach plugs in a long reach hole? Or will this cause problems? |
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hopkin Samba Member
Joined: June 25, 2012 Posts: 2469 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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Tandem: Does your engine code start with ACD, if so it is a Mexican engine and probably uses the long reach plugs.
NGK BP5ES-A are the long reach plugs that would have been originally installed in the engine (if it's an ACD engine).
The -A suffix means they are packaged in a VW branded box, BP5ES will work.
_________________ 1971 Super Beetle (past)
1971 Super Beetle (past)
1974 SunBug (past)
1972 914 (past)
1991 Honda Civic (Original Owner)
1996 'Open Air' Mexican Beetle (current)
2015 Golf (current)
2017 Dune Edition (daughter's car) |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Spark plug confusion |
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tandemtwins wrote: |
Here's a question related to this topic.
I don't know which heads I've got... although I suspect the heads which take long reach plugs. (Pretty sure it's a Mexican engine; the valve adjustment nuts are 15mm as opposed to 13mm.)
Until I'm able to verify the length of the plug hole, is it okay to run short reach plugs in a long reach hole? Or will this cause problems? |
no
it's not even possible, the diameter is different _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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