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it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad
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Squeeze Cheese
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
Squeeze Cheese wrote:
Can't wait for mine!


at this rate, you'll be waiting a while


So be it! But kinda glad we're sticking with the 091...
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HoboBus
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

I dont want to be the Bad News Bear, but doesnt this bus have an Outback trans, Imprezza something else, and didn't you just play musical chairs with clutch forks with this combo?

Im sure youre planning to do this anyway, but might be worth another double-check triple-check measurement check that strokes and such are within range, that youre not overforcing the pressure plate or whatever, throwout is correct, and that everybody is playing nice together before you assign the failure to poor quality parts.

Not being an arse, but I've been bitten by weird sheet before too.

Good luck!
Hobo
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

fokker100 wrote:


But the time to open that bottle of champagne approaches my friend, keep the heading North skipper! 😁


aaarrr Laughing you sure you want me at the helm? i'd be the only guy to find a ice burg in the Caribbean

Squeeze Cheese wrote:


So be it! But kinda glad we're sticking with the 091...


that makes 2 of us, but see below




HoboBus wrote:
I dont want to be the Bad News Bear, but doesnt this bus have an Outback trans, Imprezza something else, and didn't you just play musical chairs with clutch forks with this combo?

Im sure youre planning to do this anyway, but might be worth another double-check triple-check measurement check that strokes and such are within range, that youre not overforcing the pressure plate or whatever, throwout is correct, and that everybody is playing nice together before you assign the failure to poor quality parts.

Not being an arse, but I've been bitten by weird sheet before too.

Good luck!
Hobo


yes, but here's the deal...

all the parts I am using are good from 99-14. the clutch arm was an update, but it's all the same.

this is no better or worse than someone taking a 091 using a 002 bell and cutting the input shaft. or using a 200/215/228 clutch, flywheel etc

I was on the phone for an hour this AM with my dealer. we went over each and very combo across the model line up from 99-14 an all of the parts are the same, minus WRX which as a way different trans anyway.


I shot my parts guy a text late last night. this was here at 7:40am

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


now i'm waiting on a volvo idiot who has an appointment for 9am.....evidently their clock is broken...
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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HoboBus
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

Sounds like appropriate due diligence, as expected.

Will be interesting to see if there are any broken or bent parts when you get it apart.
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white74westy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

fokker100 my hat goes off to you for your incredible patience and upbeat attitude! It has been amazing to watch this thread from the beginning!

Skills, as always, I have no doubt you'll get this thing whipped into shape and in a manner consistent with your expectations and level of craftmanship. Nice work! Pretty sure with the exception of some d-bag that's on the run, out in CA that we're all pulling for you. Can't wait to see you give this thing the final ok and send it home with a very happy fokker100! Cool
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

welp….

going back in now. got a bit of a slow start today...but really wanted to take the time to measure stuff before I toss the clutch thru napa's window.

hope to have it 100% back together in a bit. definite manufacturing issues. i'll be adding this to the ever growing list of dealer only parts. call me a primadonna… don't care. but this is bullshit.

on the plus side, it all came out fast and easy, because I spent hours over these conversions refining how they go together. not to mention there isn't 72 different fastener sizes anymore

pull battery cable, disconnect alternator, throttle cable, brake booster hose, fuel lines, drain coolant, pull 2 main harness plugs and the exhaust which comes off in 1 easy to remove unit. on the floor in 35-40 mins. it's the hours I spent looking things over that ate the time.
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

well, nothing out of the ordinary

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


not flat, that's for sure

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


it's kind of bowl shaped Rolling Eyes

Subaru pressure plate is laser straight

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


and the real difference

old on the left, Subaru on the right

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


you can see the fingers are 'sprung'

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


hard to tell in the photo, but the feeler gauges are now between the clutch and the flywheel, and I can shove the disc fore and aft on the input shaft

motherfucker

clutch pedal even feels better. before it felt like a water balloon. I should have stopped right then.

I got interrupted, but will fill with coolant in a bit and run it. not sure if I will have a chance to drive it today or not, but we seem to be going in the right direction now
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

It's just amazing to me that companies get away with selling these poor quality parts. I guess "quality control" doesn't exist anymore these days. We've all heard the stories from decades old classic VW shops that are shutting their doors because they can't buy quality parts and eat too much labor trying to make what they can buy work. Look at the labor you just ate because of that pressure plate.

I autopsied an almost brand new Pertronix distributor recently that a customer sent me after buying a restored German Bosch distributor. He asked me to look at it because it just wouldn't work right. He didn't want it back. I took it apart and the materials were terrible. Bad tolerances, sticky advance weights, a sloppy pivot plate that caused HUGE dwell changes, etc.. Sad...

Glad you found the problem Don.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

The customer does QC now.


Everything is meant to be sold, not used.

The primary goal is to sell things, and if they don't work and you can get away with it, then good on you!

In many countries, if a businessman can get away with selling a junk part for full pop,
Then he is admired for being clever.


Welcome to globalism;
A dropping tide lowers all boats.
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
It's just amazing to me that companies get away with selling these poor quality parts. I guess "quality control" doesn't exist anymore these days..


it's a total race to the bottom. as a dealer tech I was spoiled....open box, replace part....DONE. quite honestly, I can't recall a failed dealer part out of the box....ever. downloading software....that's another story. I bricked a 5 year old Volvo once. VCNA was like 'oops'


wcfvw69 wrote:
Look at the labor you just ate because of that pressure plate..


it is what it is. yea, it sucks but it's called doing the right thing and thankfully it doesn't happen often here.

Clatter wrote:
The customer does QC now.
Everything is meant to be sold, not used.


yep. I don't think globalism is the issue. it's pride. as our generation (35 and up) ages out of certain positions in life this is what we can expect. add to that the 'I don't want to work, and if I do, I want 42.50 an hour' so manufacturers are kind of in a hard spot because...everyone gets a trophy today. mark my words...that will be the downfall of America, and the rest of the world

i'm a member of a group of euro techs and in that group we have some engineers from volvo, Mercedes and VAG. a few have retired, and some are still working.

their inside view is it's the millennial's/next generation coming in and a whole bunch of engineering masturbation going on. the group I belong to has what I would assume to be the last of the "slide rule" generation that not only took pride in what they did, but made the effort to make a great product.

this was an Exedy/LuK clutch kit. it's the same one I used in ride-on's 5 speed swap. evidently things slid down hill in the past couple years.

when I spoke to Napa about this, my sales rep who I've known 20 years said they haven't had any issues that he can remember. I have to believe him...he knows i'm a fussy prick and has actually whispered under his breath "you don't want to buy that from me"

I know, there is a certain percentage of stuff that slides thru sub-par, usually in batches. I didn't want to get another one from Napa because what if it's a slow moving part (shouldn't be, there is a billion of these things here) and I get another one from the same batch? all of my credibility gets flushed if I do it 3 times with the same results.

anyway, I didn't drive it but clicked it thru the gears. slid into reverse like butter, so i'm hoping the test drive goes well
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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Xevin Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

Put down the wrench, wash off the grease, get off the keyboard, and give your family a squeeze. It’s Valentine’s Day for F sake. Can’t you feel the romance in the air? Laughing Bus will be there in the morning and fokker cool with it. Awesome job Skills.
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GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Very Happy

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Damn that Xevin... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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My God! Xevin and I 100% agree Shocked
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
.......i'm a member of a group of euro techs and in that group we have some engineers from volvo, Mercedes and VAG. a few have retired, and some are still working.

their inside view is it's the millennial's/next generation coming in and a whole bunch of engineering masturbation going on. the group I belong to has what I would assume to be the last of the "slide rule" generation that not only took pride in what they did, but made the effort to make a great product.....


Exactly!, tech for tech's sake! Rolling Eyes

And that's why I say "No F'ng way" when my wife or daughter look at a new car ad and say "I'd like one of those", I've told both of them flat out "there's no way I'll get involved with any heavy maintenance on it, you're on you own, better get the extended warranty". Even new "genuine" parts for older cars from the dealer require me to do a full quality check before I install them lately (not all of them pass either), why should I think that the assembly line gets the better stuff?

Sorry to see you get bit by something that requires such a dig to replace, I've been there and know exactly how you feel. I lay it out up front with my customers now that even if they buy the premium parts they are still going to pay for my time to triple check everything before it goes in, measure twice, cry once. Confused
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

Xevin wrote:
It’s Valentine’s Day for F sake. Can’t you feel the romance in the air? Laughing Bus will be there in the morning and fokker cool with it..


I've gotten fucked enough this week. i'll take a raincheck Laughing


busdaddy wrote:

Sorry to see you get bit by something that requires such a dig to replace, I've been there and know exactly how you feel. I lay it out up front with my customers now that even if they buy the premium parts they are still going to pay for my time to triple check everything before it goes in, measure twice, cry once. Confused


Mark, we're cut from the same cloth for sure. I do QC before installs for sure, you have to these days. the worse part is there was only a 90.00 swing in the price. if Fokker had any useable parts from conversion #1 and I didn't feel like the grim reaper every time we spoke, I would have done the dealer clutch from the beginning. but my thought was if I can try and save the poor guy *anything* I would do my best to make sure I did.

my problem was I didn't exactly have a old clutch to match up. the one I pulled from this mess was what I assume to have been from oh, oh, oh O'Reilly's because when I ran the p/n tag on the starter it came back as one of theirs.

so who do I trust? a white box special with no identifying marks whatsoever or one stamped with LuK on it?

it sucks...and I try to do damage control before final assembly. I have CurtP's 2.5 here and he donated his flywheel to the cause, because the one in the bus when I got it was again, china looking....poorly cast and generally ugly. unfortunately I didn't have his old stuff laying around.

sometimes you're the bug. sometimes you're the windshield. as long as hazetguy doesn't post again, I think we'll be good Laughing

the new one was direct from the fine folks at Fuji Heavy Industries and marked made in japan.

ah so, round eye. Bless the Japanese for having pride and work ethic


Link

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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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Xevin Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

You need a “Pick me up” learned it from you Skills Wink


Link

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67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Very Happy

Clatter wrote:
Damn that Xevin... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
I respect Xevin and he's a turd Razz

SGKent wrote:
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree Shocked
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:14 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote


Link

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67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Very Happy

Clatter wrote:
Damn that Xevin... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
I respect Xevin and he's a turd Razz

SGKent wrote:
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree Shocked
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

Every time I pick up a Volvo part In that original blue box, I hear the drain on my bank account, but the pure joy as the part lines up exactly, the new fasteners in the box, and the like new restored performance , I go polish my bishop statue to complete the experience.

I’m talking about you P2 dual mass flywheel.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Every time I pick up a Volvo part In that original blue box, I hear the drain on my bank account, but the pure joy as the part lines up exactly, the new fasteners in the box, and the like new restored performance , I go polish my bishop statue to complete the experience.

I’m talking about you P2 dual mass flywheel.



80s music is the best. Cool Cool

As for orginal boxes, watch those knock off Chinese parts. There was a big counterfeit sting a number of years ago when the Chinese knocked off FAG bearings, marked FAG, knocked off the box too, the whole deal. It got pretty messy in the bearing industry, from what I recall.

You just never know.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

FCP gets 99% of my Volvo business ; if I see someone selling at 20% less than them, I know why. I avoid eBay and Amazon for car parts

We have built our own junkyard crew in Volvo world that lets us access decent supplies of PnP parts at good prices for big used stuff.

We also avoid all the 15 year olds who try to sell turbos at $350 form junkyards, it’s a $50 pnp, sorry.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

FCP sells the same regurgitated shit WorldPac sells. they use to be 5 mins from me before they moved to Milford CT.

I bought up 95% of all of their air/water cooled stuff when they were in Groton. I actually have some of their old shelving units. Back then, they were a old school brick and mortar store and I know the family personally.

Nick, who's blown the biz to a level his parents didn't want to is a decent enough guy. he's made millions slinging china's finest. they are probably the 'least worse' in terms of parts, but they will be quick to tell you "we've sold xxxxx of those and never had a problem. my WP rep will say "85% return rate"

it's buyer beware. when i service daily driver stuff 90% of my parts are dealer, and i will be heading to 100% here soon if this trend keeps going. my reputation isn't worth fucking up over a 100.00 swing in parts costs.

thankfully Fokker100 is a chill guy and has been a sweetheart to work with. if this were sally soccer mom she would have had a stroke, tried to make me pay for a rental car, expect a full wash and detail, free oil changes for life and a 75% discount. that's real life in auto repair in todays world....then they'd slam you on social media.

my motto for decades has been make 1 person happy, they may tell 2 people. piss someone off, they will tell anyone who will listen.
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: it's a fokker..subaru swap gone bad Reply with quote

When your Japanese car starts turning Chinese, at which point do you revert back to German?

Vicious cycle...
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