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56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back
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WAoval
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

Hey guys, any help really appreciated with this.

Having read through a lot of info on the transmission swap I've followed the new nose cone, hockey stick and mounting process.

Everything is new (early bus) as most of the threads recommend.

However on fitting it all up the trans cradle is about a quart inch off connecting to the frame horns.

So the transmission is sitting slighter further back from what I can see.

The car came without any mountings or trans to compare with so I'm not sure if this is normal when doing this kind of swap.

Has anyone else come across this before? Any solutions? And does it cause problems with the engine being further back if this is correct?

Thanks
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Motorhead55
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

From what I remember putting a full syncro in my 1955 bug, the trans does sit a bit further back. Are you going to install a 36hp or later engine?
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Snort
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

I remember running into something similar at one time but it's been a while. I recall taking some measurements from the bell housing to some fixed point on the body and it wasn't off by very much compared to a split case transaxle, maybe a millimeter or two.

But I had the same problem as you with the cradle bracket. The holes in the cradle for the engine mounts are slotted, mine ended up fitting with the mounts fully adjusted to one end of the slots.

It would be interesting to do a comparison measurement full syncro compared to split case from front motor mount surface on the nosecone to the end of the bell housing.
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WAoval
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

thanks for the info guys. I've shifted the mounts and at a stretch the mounts just fit But it's damn tight. There's two main issues I can see with this.

1. the engine sits farther back. Not by much granted but a 1/4 of an inch has it's own impacts like the tinware fitment.

2. another issue is that the gear selector is also a 1/4 inch further back and so it's not dead centre. Not a massive issue I guess but it does impact the gear selection.

Surprised there's not more problems with this set up though and that more questions haven't surfaced. I might try and modify the mounting so it's back in position.

I;d be interested in any split case measurements front mount to the bell housing so I can compare it.
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McFunzeepants
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

Hello WAoval-

Reviving this thread-
I have the same problem with my split case transaxle. After having it rebuilt, the Transaxle cradle is about 14/" from seating on the frame horns. Even the old Transaxle mounts look worn and distorted.
See this thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=706027

It's the same transaxle that came out of the car, all motor mounts are new but are the same size / thickness as the old ones. Nose cone part number is consistent. with what it should have.
It's in a '59 ghia, but the running gear is very similar with a '56 bug- all type 1.

What solution did you find?
Thanks in advance!
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martisan33
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

I would check the rear toe-in once itís all together. It will be toe-ed in more if the trans is too far back, I believe it should be at zero.
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storm
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

I have a Ď56 beetle that has a tunnel trans. To install the 36 horse engine I had to take the muffler off to clear the rear apron. Once engine is home ,I reinstalled the muffler. The newer trans was pushed back 3/8 inch. I use thick washers to take up the space where the frame and trans mate together. G.
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McFunzeepants
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

Thanks all for your responses...
I didn't even think about the rear wheel toe in- I can see how that would be affected. I will definitely check that out.

Last weekend, I re-installed the transaxle /engine and placed the body on the pan. The pan and body alignment was good. The spacing between the engine tin and the body indicated that indeed the engine was ~1/4 further back then it should.
The engine seal would cover it no problem....but the stress it's putting on my split case transaxle is huge, I can actually see the spacing between the trans halves becoming bigger as I tighten down the mounts. That would explain why it leaks, and why it was leaking when I bought the car.

Storm- How is that washer between the cradle and the frame horns working? That was one of the solutions I was thinking about. My fear is that the large bolt that goes into the frame horn- which has machined shoulders would somehow not have enough threads catching or wouldn't support the weight of the engine and it's torque.

My current solution?
All part numbers (nose cone, trans, mounts) are consistent with this year.
As I've isolated the issue to the front trans mount (all indications is that the front trans mount is too thick). I'm going to saw that bastard in half then re-glue it using 3m structural adhesive.
Nuts? yes. absolutely.
But before I do that I have another mount coming from WCM to trial before I pick up that saw.
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Bub
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

I'm just reassembling a 54' that I think suffers from this misplacement just slightly with new cradle mounts. I don't think mine is quite 1/4" , but when I tighten the mounts I do see a little of that stretch.
I was able to get mine close enough to normal by adding a tiny bit of adjustment room to the various holes 1. in the cradle and 2. in the bellhousing.
Just a tiny bit of extra oval to those mounting holes got it right where it should be.
I left everything loose until I snugged up the front mount then went to each hole with a dremel for a few seconds and when I tightened the cradle hardware there was almost no stretch. Maybe a little..but the new mounts are very rigid, I assume they'll soften up.
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jason
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

Iíve done a few swaps. Make sure the cradle mount is tight first. The big metal one. Push it all the way forward and snug the nose cone mount. Leave the cradle mounts loose and start all the bolts. Tighten everything. The aftermarket mounts are all over the place. Just file the holes on the mounts instead of the OG parts.
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storm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: 56 transmission swap help - is the box normally further back Reply with quote

Mcfunnzeepants: storm here, the washers between frame horn and large bolts are holding up fine. My 36 hp stock engine has low torque and no issues yet. I did check the tightest of the bolts and they were fine.
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