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mppickett Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2018 Posts: 8 Location: Maui
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:47 pm Post subject: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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BANG! Somewhere around 5600 rpm (hmmm, thought I'd set the rev limiter to 5200), I heard a large bang and saw my oil filler cap take off across the road behind me. The engine was running fine but the generator light came on so I knew it had to do with the fan belt. Pulled over and looked in the engine bay to see the alternator sitting at an angle, the alternator stand broken in half, a nice 2 inch hole in the top of my shroud and the alternator belt completely untouched (gee, I saved $10). Evidently I did not have one of the balanced, TIG welded fans in this engine.
So, anyone who has gone through this, I could use some advice. I need to buy a good doghouse shroud, fan, alternator stand and alternator. After reading about alignment and balancing woes, I'm wondering if there's a magic purchase of a pre-balanced alternator/fan set to be had. I don't plan on super high revs although the engine seems to really like the 5000s. I don't have the valve train to support more than that. However, I don't want to have another exploding fan adventure so a 7000 rpm fan would be welcome. Any suggestions on sources for good bundles or individual parts?
Many thanks,
Mike
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ALB Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008 Posts: 3483 Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Hey, it's me (haven't quite made it to bed yet). I wrote you on SOC. What's the big bracket on the left side of the engine for? _________________ On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76938 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:44 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Berg fan.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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There’s also vendor racin jason here on the site that welds them up.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2209927
I’ve gotten a couple from him, and know quite a few others that were happy with them.
Maybe try running your belt a little looser. 5600 rpm didn’t cause the explosion. If you had the belt fairly tight, gear changes likely weakened the crimps, then it finally let go. That’s why the serpentine systems aren’t the best to use on high strung engines because they don’t slip. You’re lucky you only tore up what you did. I’ve seen blades go through deck lids and cause damage to other things outside the car. |
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volksworld Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 2529 Location: formerly NY currently NC
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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btw the louvered plate under the generator stand is in the wrong position |
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1660 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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I just use good old German fans. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76938 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Ohio Tom wrote: |
I just use good old German fans. |
On a stock engine... sure.
But on a fast reving engine, just miss a shift and BOOM. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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rugblaster Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016 Posts: 1171 Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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That fan was turning a lot more that 5600 rpm.......more like 10 or 12K
Folks use to adjust the belt slack to slip when you hit the big numbers. _________________ '69 Karmy, '69 Camper, Meyers clone, '65 drag bug, 10.78 @ 128 (sold it) '51 Dodge farm truck,
'09 MB E350 '18 MB E400, '65 Plymouth Valiant convertible and a '19 Ford F250 King Ranch (nicer, but dirty, farm truck)
VWoA factory trained line tech 75 till 90 or so
ASE Master Certification
VWoA Assoc. of Quality Technicians inductee (One of 25 in the five state southwest region)
La Confrerie des Chevaliers du Tastevin (San Angelo Chapter)
TCU ......GO FROGS!!!!!! |
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TinCanFab Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 2743 Location: Waterford, California
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1660 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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I rev motors to well past 7,000rpm.
I also run a power pulley on anything built for high rpms.
Only ever seen one (Empi) fan explode.
I do as suggested and keep the belt tension on the loose side for this reason.
Also a good idea to run a "power rated" belt (Kevlar jacketed) so they can slip and not tear up.
More than one way to skin a cat... |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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I've seen several stock fans grenade, you don't have any broken fins so that's cool.
I've been using welded fans from CIP1 , power pulleys and loose belts on my buggies for years
brad |
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mppickett Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2018 Posts: 8 Location: Maui
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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ALB wrote: |
Hey, it's me (haven't quite made it to bed yet). I wrote you on SOC. What's the big bracket on the left side of the engine for? |
Hey Al, thanks for the tips on SOC. The big bracket is a Gilmore AC compressor bracket. Due to a very long drive in our old 911 cabrio (black leather interior and black top) during a hot, NC day, Marianne now requires that any car I build must have AC. Truth be told, I love riding top down in hot weather with cold air on my face and knees!
Mike |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6616 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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I'm surprised there wasn't more damage. Everything failed gracefully. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Kafer_Mike Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2004 Posts: 348 Location: Noblesville, IN
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Quite a mess, but less damage than I've see with other 'exploding' fans; cracked cases, broken fins on the heads, punctured oil cooler, etc.
I give a X2 for Racin Jason. I've purchased a couple fans from him as well. Good guy and great work, especially for the money. As far as generator stands, look for an original VW vs. the Chinese ones. Not that the latter won't hold up in your application, but why tempt fate twice.
And FWIW, the oil deflector plate is in wrong. _________________ Kafer_Mike
Build 'em fast...or let 'em sit.
Last edited by Kafer_Mike on Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:15 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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heimlich wrote: |
I'm surprised there wasn't more damage. Everything failed gracefully. |
My thought, too. You were lucky, some fan explosions do some serious damage.
Fan always spins much faster than the engine, even with a "power pulley". |
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Howard 111 Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005 Posts: 1827 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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X2 on the Berg fan. Not only are they welded, but also balanced. _________________ 1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270 |
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mppickett Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2018 Posts: 8 Location: Maui
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Thanks so much for the advice, guys. Berg welded/balanced fan ordered. I'll pull together the rest and start my plan to get back on the road!
Mike |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Ive seen quite a few of those aftermarket alternator stands break taking out the fan with them. You can usually tell because there is less damage. When the fan goes at 6K that is when oil coolers and fins get taken out.
Aftermarket backing plates add to the issue causing stress due to their incorrect positioning of the alternator/fan assembly
Ever since I saw my first one Ive been using used stock units. I like the OE one that CB sells, wonder if its just as good as the OG parts. _________________ Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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