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mppickett
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Maui
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 Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:47 pm Post subject: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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BANG! Somewhere around 5600 rpm (hmmm, thought I'd set the rev limiter to 5200), I heard a large bang and saw my oil filler cap take off across the road behind me. The engine was running fine but the generator light came on so I knew it had to do with the fan belt. Pulled over and looked in the engine bay to see the alternator sitting at an angle, the alternator stand broken in half, a nice 2 inch hole in the top of my shroud and the alternator belt completely untouched (gee, I saved $10). Evidently I did not have one of the balanced, TIG welded fans in this engine.
So, anyone who has gone through this, I could use some advice. I need to buy a good doghouse shroud, fan, alternator stand and alternator. After reading about alignment and balancing woes, I'm wondering if there's a magic purchase of a pre-balanced alternator/fan set to be had. I don't plan on super high revs although the engine seems to really like the 5000s. I don't have the valve train to support more than that. However, I don't want to have another exploding fan adventure so a 7000 rpm fan would be welcome. Any suggestions on sources for good bundles or individual parts?
Many thanks,
Mike
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ALB
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3483
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Hey, it's me (haven't quite made it to bed yet). I wrote you on SOC. What's the big bracket on the left side of the engine for?
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76905
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:44 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Berg fan.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:13 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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There’s also vendor racin jason here on the site that welds them up.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2209927
I’ve gotten a couple from him, and know quite a few others that were happy with them.
Maybe try running your belt a little looser. 5600 rpm didn’t cause the explosion. If you had the belt fairly tight, gear changes likely weakened the crimps, then it finally let go. That’s why the serpentine systems aren’t the best to use on high strung engines because they don’t slip. You’re lucky you only tore up what you did. I’ve seen blades go through deck lids and cause damage to other things outside the car. |
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volksworld
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011
Posts: 2529
Location: formerly NY currently NC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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| btw the louvered plate under the generator stand is in the wrong position |
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Ohio Tom
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: Marshallville Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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| I just use good old German fans. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76905
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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| Ohio Tom wrote: |
| I just use good old German fans. |
On a stock engine... sure.
But on a fast reving engine, just miss a shift and BOOM.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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rugblaster
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2016
Posts: 1170
Location: San Angelo, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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That fan was turning a lot more that 5600 rpm.......more like 10 or 12K
Folks use to adjust the belt slack to slip when you hit the big numbers.
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TinCanFab
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 2743
Location: Waterford, California
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Ohio Tom
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: Marshallville Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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I rev motors to well past 7,000rpm.
I also run a power pulley on anything built for high rpms.
Only ever seen one (Empi) fan explode.
I do as suggested and keep the belt tension on the loose side for this reason.
Also a good idea to run a "power rated" belt (Kevlar jacketed) so they can slip and not tear up.
More than one way to skin a cat... |
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slalombuggy
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9145
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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I've seen several stock fans grenade, you don't have any broken fins so that's cool.
I've been using welded fans from CIP1 , power pulleys and loose belts on my buggies for years
brad |
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mppickett
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Maui
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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| ALB wrote: |
| Hey, it's me (haven't quite made it to bed yet). I wrote you on SOC. What's the big bracket on the left side of the engine for? |
Hey Al, thanks for the tips on SOC. The big bracket is a Gilmore AC compressor bracket. Due to a very long drive in our old 911 cabrio (black leather interior and black top) during a hot, NC day, Marianne now requires that any car I build must have AC. Truth be told, I love riding top down in hot weather with cold air on my face and knees!
Mike |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6593
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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I'm surprised there wasn't more damage. Everything failed gracefully.
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Kafer_Mike
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2004
Posts: 348
Location: Noblesville, IN
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Quite a mess, but less damage than I've see with other 'exploding' fans; cracked cases, broken fins on the heads, punctured oil cooler, etc.
I give a X2 for Racin Jason. I've purchased a couple fans from him as well. Good guy and great work, especially for the money. As far as generator stands, look for an original VW vs. the Chinese ones. Not that the latter won't hold up in your application, but why tempt fate twice.
And FWIW, the oil deflector plate is in wrong. 
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Kafer_Mike
Build 'em fast...or let 'em sit.
Last edited by Kafer_Mike on Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:15 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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| heimlich wrote: |
| I'm surprised there wasn't more damage. Everything failed gracefully. |
My thought, too. You were lucky, some fan explosions do some serious damage.
Fan always spins much faster than the engine, even with a "power pulley". |
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Howard 111
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005
Posts: 1827
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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X2 on the Berg fan. Not only are they welded, but also balanced.
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mppickett
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2018
Posts: 8
Location: Maui
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Thanks so much for the advice, guys. Berg welded/balanced fan ordered. I'll pull together the rest and start my plan to get back on the road!
Mike |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Type 1 Air Cooled Cooling Fan Explosion - Replacement Vendors? |
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Ive seen quite a few of those aftermarket alternator stands break taking out the fan with them. You can usually tell because there is less damage. When the fan goes at 6K that is when oil coolers and fins get taken out.
Aftermarket backing plates add to the issue causing stress due to their incorrect positioning of the alternator/fan assembly
Ever since I saw my first one Ive been using used stock units. I like the OE one that CB sells, wonder if its just as good as the OG parts.
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