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tbone5
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 51
Location: LA
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 Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:29 pm Post subject: Ball Joint Install Question |
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I feel somewhat silly asking this but here we go:
I'm installing my ball joints, both upper and lower, and don't know what to do with the protective cover in the picture below. This is the first time I've ever seen such covers. Are these just to protect the rubber boots during shipping? Do I take them off before installing or leave them on? I've worked with ball joints in the past and have never seen these before. 
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Igeo
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018
Posts: 888
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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Remove the plastic covers. Lube the taper before installing.
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1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17110
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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Did you pay attention to the notch location when you pressed in the new lower ball joints?
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tbone5
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 51
Location: LA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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| I did line up the notch before pressing the ball joints, so no issues there. The covers have me scratching my head....they are rather substantial, as if made to be left on. I’m inclined to leave them off as the previous poster suggested....just getting a feel for the collected wisdom out there. Thanks to all that add their 2 cents worth. |
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Igeo
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018
Posts: 888
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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How do you propose to get the taper up into the lower control arm with that plastic in the way?
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1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17110
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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They are shipping protection. As stated remove them prior to install. Maybe save one for your tool kit.
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tbone5
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 51
Location: LA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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| Ah!! Igeo has pointed out the critical detail that solves the puzzle. I'll leave the covers off. Thanks to all. |
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Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1895
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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| Igeo wrote: |
| Remove the plastic covers. Lube the taper before installing. |
My chief engineer when i was a deck boss /engineer in Alaska said you should never lube a tapered fitting. The friction of a tapered fitting holds it in place, lubing counters the coefficient of fiction which then requires over tightening to achieve the required holding power.
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10075
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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Thanks FT, that jumped out at me too.
A taper fit pin and its hole should be scrupulously clean and dry.
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Igeo
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018
Posts: 888
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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Learn something every day! I've always lubed those tapered front end parts like ball joints and tie rod ends because it just seemed right to me. I stand corrected.
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9603
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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| Igeo wrote: |
| Learn something every day! I've always lubed those tapered front end parts like ball joints and tie rod ends because it just seemed right to me. I stand corrected. |
I've wondered about this.
In the lubed case, the threads will turn easier thus for the same rotational torque, the lubed bolt ends up at a higher tension (preload & stretch etc).
And the friction of the taper pulling into it's hole is reduced as well, it wedges farther in.
The lubricity is a little less with oil than grease, but the oil evaporates "to dry" sooner.
What are the chances that the connection actually ends up tighter?
I bet it does.
Pretty sure bolts are torqued dry for the explicit reason that lubed would require a list of different torque specs for each type of lube.
Dry is "one specific torque value" thus more reliable.
I guess you could torque the fastener....
Then a few months later put a torque wrench on it again, and check if it turns a little.
I do that on my greasy CV joint bolts.
Or just to sleep better too. 
In any case I bet a LOT of balljoints are installed in a LOT of vehicles .... not paying attention to dryness.
And I'm not hearing of problems, but that doesn't mean much.
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Igeo
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2018
Posts: 888
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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Thanks Sodo. Good points And I swear it was a just thin film on the machined taper. Not the threads. Anyway, hope the OP has it figured out.
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space
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2017
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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Can someone explain the "notch alignment"?
I havent seen tht mentioned before
Thnx |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Ball Joint Install Question |
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| space wrote: |
Can someone explain the "notch alignment"?
I havent seen tht mentioned before
Thnx |
You need to align the notches on the ball joint to the notches of the arm. Doing this allows the ball joint to pivot properly. Not paying mind to these identifiers can cause the ball joint to be stiff and wear prematurely as they only pivot in particular directions.
Same scenario for Bay buses.
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