| Author |
Message |
dkoesyncro
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006
Posts: 983
|
 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
 |
|
Niel, I think your okay with that plan! Similar to what I did here, although I'm using an external oil cooler but you should get the idea.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:48 am Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
Thanks dkoesyncro
I'll have a closer look later at your images but I think I see what you're doing. e.g. I see how you moved the junction at coolant pump return to the long pipe. Are those extensions and junctions welded to the long pipes?
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dkoesyncro
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006
Posts: 983
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:59 am Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
Long pipe? The one on the left coming from the radiator has three ports attached to it. Upper water pump port, heater boxes and head flange.
The ALH Tdi for the beetle had an aluminum flange that looks similar to the AEG. The ALH has two ports and a face for the glow plug heater. I capped and bulk headed the glow plug heater to be my turbo coolant feed and the other nipple I welded shut, this could be used for your heater circuit! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:08 am Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
By "long pipe" i was referring to the front to rear Vanagon oem plastic or steel coolant pipe(s). Im sure theres a better technical term i couldve used to describe that part. 
Speaking of heaters, i look forward to seeing if my "Tiico" coolant pump does a better job of moving coolant. Especially at lower rpms. As im sure you know, the mk3 "external" after market pumps tend to have the paddle type impeller vs the oem cone shaped impeller.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dkoesyncro
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2006
Posts: 983
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:14 am Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
Yes, most after market pumps are horrible. I got an oem cast vane from the folks at Cascade German. Aaron prides himself on locating quality parts, this guy has connections globally!
My steel coolant lines are assembled with readily available rubber 90° and couplers. The piece you were asking about is attached to the long pipes with couplers.
Like wise, I was trying to devise an elegant solution to the old cobbled system I had. If I had an issue I would be in trouble. Now I'm 3/4, 1" and 1.5" id rubber pieces. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
Cool. And thanks for pointer to Cascade. I got my pump from van-cafe.
In terms of hoses etc. it seems I'm after a similar goal. In an attempt to help refine this ABA swap process, assuming the used ABA has a good plastic coolant manifold at pump and that the person can weld-fabricate, or soft solder copper hose unions, "all" they'd have to do us buy another VW plastic manifold, Gates hoses and stock straight cuts of 5/8" 3/4" 1" 1.25" and 1.5" hose. (I forget the small hose ID) I spent hours scouring the Gates hose size PDF and googling each hose to see how common. Since a new plastic manifold comes with 3 hoses, I used a VW hose between oil cooler and lower plastic manifold. However. I bet that Gates or ? has a hose that would fit there.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
So more fetid madness on the "design" front.
This is not great looking welding but I chose to stitch weld as some parts are zinc plated. Weld a bit, step away from fumes, repeat.
Obviously a mock up of parts but this should work. Though the bottle location is not ideal (but I may put an aux battery in engine bay), I really like the placement and design of the 5/8" x 5/8" x 3/4" manifold. Of note, 3/4" Greenline hose is shown. Its a very very tight fit to VW fittings. i.e. you'd have to cut it to remove it. I didn't realize this but I think that hose is available in 7/8" ID dimension.  Not sure if that fits the VW plastic manifold any better.
The 1.25" to 1.5' transition piece I made using hose fittings is a poor fit at the 1.25" end. Using threaded pipe, the 1.5" end is very tight to the Greenline 1.5" hose. I may end up using copper there.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Obviously a mock up of parts but this should work. ..... Of note, 3/4" Greenline hose is shown. Its a very very tight fit to VW fittings. i.e. you'd have to cut it to remove it. I didn't realize this but I think that hose is available in 7/8" ID dimension. Not sure if that fits the VW plastic manifold any better.
|
So it's been pretty cold here lately. Cold temps and the more robust design of this hose made it harder to work with. A heat gun on low helped soften the hose material for removal. I'd suggest that 7/8" ID hose is too large. ( I measured things, again)
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
But.... as mentioned, this all depends on quality of the T's I weld up ..... (I'd guess its one thing to weld a bracket but something else to weld up a fitting carrying fluids under pressure even at ~ 15 PSI. .....).
|
Well, my "guess" was accurate.
Short story is that pressure testing the manifolds I made yielded minor leaks. I guess I could grind the welds down and hope throwing some weld on will work but I doubt it will. The penetration just won't happen that way.
As was suggested, copper, thinner wall steel, or pay for the custom part are the best choices.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Short story is that pressure testing the manifolds I made yielded minor leaks. I guess I could grind the welds down and hope throwing some weld on will work but I doubt it will. The penetration just won't happen that way.
As was suggested, copper, thinner wall steel, or pay for the custom part are the best choices.
Neil. |
So while I was welding those parts, I knew my gas bottle was low but blatantly ignored the fact that it was probably empty. (tank gauge needle was at bottom, gauge after reg showed pressure); I've never run out of shielding gas before. In hindsight, given the porous welds and sag I saw, I'm bet the tank was only expelling air, not tri mix. I'll try this again but this time I bevelled the edges and will be using NON galvanized steel.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
So not to be "out done" by two pieces of metal, I tried, again, to weld 1/8" pipe nipples. I'm using tai-mix shielding gas so that may not help things but even with beveled edges at weld, it was no good; during pressure test, a joint had 2 small leaks. So, as was suggested, worked with brass and copper.
I didn't check the pressure but I'm sure it was at least 15 PSI so solder joints are ok; they should hold up in spite of time and vibration, I think. I made the pipe long so at least one hose connection was easier to get at; the 1.25" hose connections will be above the transmission. The "cap" shown in upper LH of image is an old chunk of 1.25" pipe squeezed closed and soldered at end. (not shown).
This will join hose off head to hose to long pipe and tee off to coolant pump/oil cooler. 1" T, 1" x 3/4" bushing, 3/4" pipe, 1/2" brass nipple ground down. I used #14 copper wire for the beads. We'll see.
I could've ground down the small end of brass nipple more so copper bead remained thicker. My hope is that the 1/2" brass nipple ID isn't too restrictive.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uberaudi
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2013
Posts: 503
Location: Hi-top Country
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
| I'm just beginning to tackle my aba swap coolant lines and am curious how this ended up working out for you? This thread has been great for me to wrap my head around what goes where. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea. |
|
|
| uberaudi wrote: |
| I'm just beginning to tackle my aba swap coolant lines and am curious how this ended up working out for you? This thread has been great for me to wrap my head around what goes where. |
Which aspects are you curious of? Regardless.....
No leaks at copper parts, no hoses slipping off (e.g. at "T" off head), coolant temps seem normal. Not a 100% accurate measurement or comparison but temp gauge reads nearly identically, or very close to gauge on my other ABA OBD1 Vanagon swap that uses mostly OE hoses, manifold. e.g. warm up time, needle position when up to temp, amount needle drops when coasting down hill. I have not compared temps with an IR thermometer though.
edit: if I ever did another ABA swap (I'd actually do a later version engine) I would not hesitate to do the same custom coolant set up but I'd try to weld up some thinner wall pipe like edit: dkoesyncro. Since some of my custom copper/brass parts have a slightly narrower ID than stock, I'm not certain there isn't some small amount of restriction in coolant flow at return path in the manifold between coolant bottle and excess return from "T" off hose from head. BUT.... I've seen zero issues in that regard, if indeed theres any reduction in flow.
I have about 15K miles on this swap.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN
Last edited by Vanagon Nut on Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uberaudi
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2013
Posts: 503
Location: Hi-top Country
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea |
|
|
Thanks for chiming in!
Mostly interested in the recommended flow of coolant but glad to hear some real data. With so many build thread variations out there, I get lost in the details.
Just to muddy the waters, i'm using a Mk4 tdi aluminum coolant flange with a Mocal oil cooler sandwich plate so while my setup is a bit different than stock coolant hose configurations, most of what I'm seeing here pertains. I like the idea of hard pipes for some of the runs, keeping hoses to a min. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea |
|
|
| uberaudi wrote: |
Mostly interested in the recommended flow of coolant but glad to hear some real data. With so many build thread variations out there, I get lost in the details.
Just to muddy the waters, i'm using a Mk4 tdi aluminum coolant flange with a Mocal oil cooler sandwich plate so while my setup is a bit different than stock coolant hose configurations, most of what I'm seeing here pertains. I like the idea of hard pipes for some of the runs, keeping hoses to a min. |
ya during my first swap, I had to stare at the ABA flow diagram in Bentley for a while but eventually got it. IMO, that is the only way to do it. i.e. I didn't want to change the coolant flow with what I've done. (and why would one do that anyways). In terms of parts I made, there *might* be subtle changes in flow at certain points but not likely.
In my case, the hard pipes don't really reduce amount of hoses afaik but for what I wanted to do, they really helped. But maybe you were referring to edit: dkoesyncro set up.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joetiger 
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5078
Location: denver
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:10 am Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea |
|
|
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Images of Mk4 flange at head that *should* fit. My thought is that using a flange with the outlet at 90º to head might open options for molded rad hose choices. |
Hi Neil,
Old thread but I have gone down another rabbit hole instead of working...Did you end up using the MK4 coolant flange? I think the right angle off the head would benefit my setup greatly. There's not a lot of space between the front of the head and the firewall/syncro gas tank on my setup and the main hose coming off the flange is a tight fight; in fact, it has failed before. It occurred to me that this might be an option.
Thanks!
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uberaudi
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2013
Posts: 503
Location: Hi-top Country
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:19 am Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea |
|
|
I used a Mk4 coolant neck off a auto beetle I believe. Had to make a block off plate, but that was simple enough. OEM parts ftw!
_________________
'84 Adventurewagen 1Z Tdi, '89 Tintop ABA, and a 86 Syncro tintop WBX. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joetiger
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5078
Location: denver
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:55 am Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea |
|
|
| uberaudi wrote: |
| I used a Mk4 coolant neck off a auto beetle I believe. Had to make a block off plate, but that was simple enough. OEM parts ftw! |
Thanks for the pic, uber! I think this might work for me.
_________________
Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Available Now! Vanagon to Louisiana--A Two-Lane Reckoning Through Past and Present
www.josephtrussell.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uberaudi
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2013
Posts: 503
Location: Hi-top Country
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea |
|
|
You betcha!
_________________
'84 Adventurewagen 1Z Tdi, '89 Tintop ABA, and a 86 Syncro tintop WBX. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea |
|
|
That mk4 manifold looks slick. Something to remember for next time!
For the record, I did use a Mk3 manifold at end of head.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
