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raydog
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1163
Location: Cape Cod
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 Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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Before you dig into this too much, try and rule out the water temp. You mention it doesn't happen until it has run for a while. Make sure you are not running out of hot water at the water heater. When you see the HO code, run the kitchen sink tap to verify.
If this passes, then yes, look into the heating element and related circuit. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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raydog
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1163
Location: Cape Cod
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| raydog wrote: |
Before you dig into this too much, try and rule out the water temp. You mention it doesn't happen until it has run for a while. Make sure you are not running out of hot water at the water heater. When you see the HO code, run the kitchen sink tap to verify.
If this passes, then yes, look into the heating element and related circuit. |
The fill water IS hot.
After it is splashed around cold dishes and against the interior of a cold dishwasher, it is no longer hot, hence the light comes on.
No problems with fill temperature, the heating circuit has problems.
It isn't unlike an electric ovens heat element, they do bad after awhile.
So do thermostats.
Dave |
I totally understand that Dave. Dishwashers also fill and empty during various cycles. Water heaters can also be problematic and give you hot water initially, then fade out quickly when an element goes bad, or a bad gas valve on a gas water heater. I don't know what kind of water heater he has, just throwing it out there. It costs absolutely nothing to check and you don't have to take the dishwasher apart yet. And yes, I'm a plumber/HVAC tech, I have replaced many heating elements and tstats. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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sloans265
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2004
Posts: 1321
Location: 32207
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Good point about the water heater.
I do think that this would show up in other ways though.
Mainly while taking a shower or bath.
A dishwasher doesn't use a lot of water per fill.......
I'm thinking 4 maybe 6 gallons per cycle?
A shower uses about 2 gallons of hot water per minute. A poorly operating water heater would be making its presence known quite quickly!
Dave |
You’d be shocked to know just how LITTLE water some of these machines are using nowadays. If the dishes aren’t drying that’s another sign of a potential bad heater. If your lazy ulyou can just run a heavy cycle. A few minutes in open the door and try to touch the heater. You’ll know real quick if it’s working.
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1970 Lotus White Panel
In search of any Pensacola Fla dealership items |
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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This is great guys.
First, definitely not the water heater. It is new as of September, I installed it myself and it is working just fine. Purchased from a commercial plumbing supply house, not a shitty Home Depot or Lowes version. 50 gallon Ruud electric. I have an excess of hot water now, which is great with a house full of Estrogen. 
I am leaning towards a bad heating element. I generally run normal or quick wash settings, but I have noticed that the dishes are not dry at the end of the complete cycle.
I will do some investigation of the machine, and will post up the model number. I have the manual in my files, and will pull the machine out to test continuity of the element.
I really appreciate all the help here.
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| sloans265 wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
Thanks for that. Yes, I have checked incoming water temp at @ 125 degrees. As I mentioned, this problem didn't exist for the first several years, so I figured something inside had failed. Not sure how to get hotter water to the machine. I have had the water heater settings higher in the past, but it didn't change the dishwasher code.
Maybe a hot water recirc pump to the kitchen sink to ensure hot water there full time? Not a big fan of that, but it may work.
For the record, I always run the kitchen faucet hot water into a pitcher until it gets hot, before I start the dishwasher ( I hate wasting water). The HO signal doesn't happen until the cycle has run for awhile. Water heater is about 20 feet worth of PEX pipe from the kitchen sink/dishwasher supply lines. Crawl space is currently uninsulated, but this happens in the summer, too. Crawl space temp stays in the 50 degree range almost year round. All supply lines are wrapped with foam pipe insulation.
If budget allows, crawl space will be getting sealed and insulated to become a conditioned space soon. That may help. |
You can always pull the dishwasher out most likely your heater goes down to the right hand side of the dishwasher you’ll see the two spade terminals underneath you can always check for continuity on the heating element. Without seeing the model number some Frigidaire is have a little thermostat on the left-hand side that can go bad also but definitely check the heater |
My heater element is a large circle right in the bottom of the machine. I can see it and touch it when I pull out the lower drawer.
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VW_Jimbo 
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9954
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
Informative thread. So I guess I will post a diagnostics question.
Have a 12 year old Frigidaire dishwasher, bought new when I rebuilt my entire kitchen. Worked fine for a few years, then it would start flashing HO during the wash cycle, and take a long time to complete. Owner's manual says the incoming water temp is too cold, but I have checked and it definitely is not.
Was recently thinking that maybe the heater element in the bottom isn't functioning. Am I way off base here? I would much rather repair than replace, but figured I would ask in here before taking the next step.
Thanks in advance. |
Appliances have a life cycle of 10 years. After that point, if something is not working, it should be replaced with a newer model. Sorry to be truthful, but that is the reality of our throw away society.
The good news is you got 2 extra years out of it!
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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If I can fix it for a reasonable cost, I definitely will. Our society may be throw away oriented, but I am not.
Besides, and basic new one costs in the $500 range. I just spent almost three grand on a new sewer line in the last few days. Not feeling flush with cash right now.
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djkeev
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sloans265
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Joined: October 24, 2004
Posts: 1321
Location: 32207
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
The reasoning for "replace it" comes into play when you start paying $100 + per hour for a "technician" to come to your home and make repairs.
The cost now ramps up quickly and tips over into "just buy a new one".
My last refrigerator repair, a $2,500 unit, the part cost $6.03.
Diagnosis time and repair time was many multiple hours. Honestly I just ordered a $90 water valve for it, but that's still WAY cheaper than buying yet another most likely trouble prone fridge.
I'm not sure a trouble free refrigerator is manufactured today. Maybe a propane one for the Amish clientele is still dependable?
Dave |
Your assuming we charge by the hour. These days a technician should be coming into you house and giving you a diagnosis with a set price for repair. If they screw it up and it takes a long time, that’s their problem.
In the case of your frozen water line, an experienced tech should have found that almost immediately. Frigidaire is known for leaky/failing valves. Parts and labor would have been right around $200. However some companies barge whatever they can. Here locally we have guys that would have charged upwards of $300 and unfortunately people pay it without asking.
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1970 Lotus White Panel
In search of any Pensacola Fla dealership items |
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| First, definitely not the water heater. It is new as of September, I installed it myself and it is working just fine. Purchased from a commercial plumbing supply house, not a shitty Home Depot or Lowes version. 50 gallon Ruud electric. |
I doubt very much that there's a difference, it's called marketing. All use similar heating elements, thermostats, controls, pressure valves. Once the inner surface seal starts leaking, then it's done.
I buy washer, dryer, refrigerator parts from Ebay retailers.
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
| First, definitely not the water heater. It is new as of September, I installed it myself and it is working just fine. Purchased from a commercial plumbing supply house, not a shitty Home Depot or Lowes version. 50 gallon Ruud electric. |
I doubt very much that there's a difference, it's called marketing. All use similar heating elements, thermostats, controls, pressure valves. Once the inner surface seal starts leaking, then it's done.
I buy washer, dryer, refrigerator parts from Ebay retailers. |
Maybe true. But I do know that many things like faucets, valves, toilets, etc., are built to a different (cheaper) spec than what you buy from a professional supplier. I have seen it myself. Our plumbing contractors will not install Home Depot stuff that the homeowner wants, because then the plumber takes the blame and must cover the cost when it fails early.
I will buy from local (non-corporate) suppliers whenever possible for just about any product I consume. It is not always possible, but I feel it is worth the effort.
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
If I can fix it for a reasonable cost, I definitely will. Our society may be throw away oriented, but I am not.
Besides, and basic new one costs in the $500 range. I just spent almost three grand on a new sewer line in the last few days. Not feeling flush with cash right now. |
KUdos to you for not buying the "10 year life time" dogma
Currently my:
dishwasher - 20 years old
Washer 2 years old, replaced one from 1994 in 2018
Dryer 2 years old, Mom has mine from 1994 still running
Refrigerator 20 years old
House AC - from 1974. Too much math to calculate age.
Furnace from 1992
All needed about one intervention of part every 10 years or so, never more than $100 part needed.
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
Informative thread. So I guess I will post a diagnostics question.
Have a 12 year old Frigidaire dishwasher, bought new when I rebuilt my entire kitchen. Worked fine for a few years, then it would start flashing HO during the wash cycle, and take a long time to complete. Owner's manual says the incoming water temp is too cold, but I have checked and it definitely is not.
Was recently thinking that maybe the heater element in the bottom isn't functioning. Am I way off base here? I would much rather repair than replace, but figured I would ask in here before taking the next step.
Thanks in advance. |
Im going with the sensor detecting the water temperature has gone out of range. PM me the model number and Ill see if I find specs.
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sloans265
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Joined: October 24, 2004
Posts: 1321
Location: 32207
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
If I can fix it for a reasonable cost, I definitely will. Our society may be throw away oriented, but I am not.
Besides, and basic new one costs in the $500 range. I just spent almost three grand on a new sewer line in the last few days. Not feeling flush with cash right now. |
KUdos to you for not buying the "10 year life time" dogma
Currently my:
dishwasher - 20 years old
Washer 2 years old, replaced one from 1994 in 2018
Dryer 2 years old, Mom has mine from 1994 still running
Refrigerator 20 years old
House AC - from 1974. Too much math to calculate age.
Furnace from 1992
All needed about one intervention of part every 10 years or so, never more than $100 part needed. |
This “dogma” applies to roughly what been out for the last few yrs. what you have was built 20 yrs ago. Things have changed. What brand is that 2 yr old washer you bought? I can tell you what to watch out for. Appliances are like automobiles. After a while you know most makes/models pros/cons
What particularly important is to know who actually manufactures what your buying.4 yr old GE French door bottom freezer owners are pissed when I show up and show them they actually just bought a Samsung with known design issues.
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1970 Lotus White Panel
In search of any Pensacola Fla dealership items |
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djkeev
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cbeck
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Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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Ask the factory tech, we are not in the business of fixing old crap, we are in the business of selling new crap.
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Any Appliance repair folk here? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
The question is why?
Why are these manufacturers knowingly selling crap?
Is it like the replacement auto part situation we have today where if it works initially..... who really gives a f.......?
Why don't they care about their reputation any more?
I must say, I've watched the overall quality and dependability of new autos SOAR since the 1950's! Sure, the late 70's early 80's sucked but overall, any new car today is reliable. From Hyundai to Bentley.
However, It does seem though that the more electronics they stuff in, the less reliable they become.
If someone built affordable appliances that lasted, wouldn't the World beat a path to their door?
Dave |
Because they want you to buy another one, not keep the old one forever. Simple, annoying, throw away business model that works because we, in general, demand it.
Modern cars are dependable, up to a point. If that fancy CVT transmission goes out, the car is a throwaway. Bump into something and set off the airbags? Throwaway. Fancy touch screen control system that does everything but wipe your ass failed early? Throwaway.
I like my 1987 Toyota pickup a little more everyday.
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