2.1L Microsquirt Conversion

[a2wolfsburggli]

Fantastic long term progress. Glad to see you're still forging forward with this.
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Current: '87 Westfalia | '16 Audi Q5 3.0T S-Line w/sport package.

Past: '09 CC 3.6L 4motion "R36 wannabe" | '02 Audi TT "ALMS Edition" | '84 Jetta GLI with Autotech Supercharger | '89 Helios Jetta GLI 16v's (x2) | '95.5 URS6 | and the list goes on.

Never underestimate the entertainment value of OCD overruling Common Sense

[10degnorth]

[valvecovergasket]

i have a couple of base maps that might get you close. as well as a startup checklist if youre interested

good looking progress so far!
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MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com

gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread

[10degnorth]

[valvecovergasket]

i still need to get the van tune off of my tuning laptop
was going to email you the startup procedure, but then i figured id post it in case its of use to anyone else in the future::

key on and make sure you get 2 seconds of fuel pump activation before it turns off (MS does this with every key cycle)
leave the key on, engine off, and do the rest of these:
cycle the pedal and see if your TPS sweeps (if not, run the open and closed throttle learn)
sanity check on your intake air temp and coolant temp sensors. should be nearly matching since everything is cold - and will confirm that youve imported the right sensor values
give a quick rationality check to the rest of your sensors - wideband warmed up and reading its full oxygen value (usually 7:1 or 22:1 depending on how youve set it up - also a good time to ensure youve got the right WBO2 settings loaded into your MS)
battery voltage is reading >12
MAP sensor reading 99 or 100 kpa

unplug the fuel pump/injectors/fuel delivery to make sure it doesnt fire, then bump the starter for a second or two - this will ensure your rpm input works. you should see no crazy needle jumps on the tach (also a good time to start a datalog) and youll see some drop on your MAP sensor.

then youre ready to get things prepped for starting and warming up the engine, so plug back in whatever was unplugged to kill fuel delivery, make sure its all set to idle for some time.

crank and fire the engine - adjust the cranking trim, and base VE bin around where it leaves cranking rpm to give it enough fuel to catch and hold. use your foot, do whatever you can to keep it idling.
then run through the spark timing check (setting running timing)
http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Megasquirt2_Se....4-43.html

let it idle up to temperature - dont worry about the WUE adjustments, just tweak the VE table around idle to help it come to temp. watch the temperature, compare against an IR temp gun reading if youre suspicious of your sensor curves.



also keep in mind the megamanual is a great resource
http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Megasquirt2_Setting_Up-3.4.pdf/Megasquirt2_Setting_Up-3.4.html
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MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com

gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread

[10degnorth]

I’m sure I’m over complicating things for myself here and I’m going to sound like an amateur admitting I didn’t realize the ECU had a hand in controlling the fuel pump and assumed the relay took care of that. Anyway, I’m now trying to hook up the new ECU to control the fuel pump relay and struggling to understand exactly how to do that. Looking at a pinout of the fuel pump relay (below) I believe I should run the Fuel Pump Out from the microsquirt to pin 86 on the relay. Does this sound right? Is that the same pin used by the stock ECU for controlling the relay? Thanks for the help!

_________________
1984 Wolfsburg Vanagon (Current Project): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=773912&highlight=

1988 Microsquirted, Wolfsburg Vanagon (Sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708000&highlight=

Microsquirt Conversion Guide (Work now Discontinued): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1laXykNPbRYS8MT...2imqd2pnx7

[valvecovergasket]

ms outputs are low side drive, so it grounds the relay coil. other side of the relay coil will need power.

(ms1 diagram but for our purposes here it doesnt matter)

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MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com

gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread

[10degnorth]

[10degnorth]

The purple wire is the fuel pump output from the MS and it is connected to pin 85 to act as the ground for the system just as valvecovergasket said, the rest of the wires are in their stock locations. You learn something everyday I guess. Thanks for all the help!
_________________
1984 Wolfsburg Vanagon (Current Project): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=773912&highlight=

1988 Microsquirted, Wolfsburg Vanagon (Sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708000&highlight=

Microsquirt Conversion Guide (Work now Discontinued): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1laXykNPbRYS8MT...2imqd2pnx7

[valvecovergasket]

that oughta do it!
looks like black, or some sort of ignition power, coming to the other side of the relay coil.
one other thing to verify when you get to that point, is that it stays hot during cranking. since its nearly the stock setup im guessing this is a non-issue though
ive seen some installs lose that FP relay while cranking and it causes some weird intermittent starts later on
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MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com

gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread

[Vanagon Nut]

Does MS require or spec use of relays with isolating or "quenching" diodes? The WBX relays appear to have those.

Maybe you showed this for purposes of taking the pic but would suggest putting wires in a relay socket block and use that.

Neil.

[mikemtnbike]

[10degnorth]

[valvecovergasket]

[10degnorth]

I’d like to echo mikemtnbike’s thanks again, without the support and help from this community this project would’ve stopped dead in its tracks a long time ago, so let’s finish it! So close!

I’m having trouble getting it to fire for the first time. I’ve verified my physical wiring, I am getting both fuel from the injectors and spark from the coil so that’s good. I’ve gone through the other msq and pulled the relevant information and added it to my file. All my sensor readings seem reasonable except my 02 which likes to pin itself to either the largest or smallest possible value, however, it rationalizes once running. I ran the van on the old system while running the microsquirt sensors as a test a couple months ago.

Here’s a drive folder of some relevant information including the VE table I’m trying to use to start it (images too large to upload to TheSamba).

Does this table look ok to start on? Should I start it with fixed timing? I turned off the AFR table to the sake of simplification and getting it to start at all. Valvecovergasket, I’ve gone through your pre start checklist completely up until the point it says “crank and start”, I’ve cranked but no start.

I’m happy to provide and more information that is needed. Thanks to everyone for the input and help.
_________________
1984 Wolfsburg Vanagon (Current Project): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=773912&highlight=

1988 Microsquirted, Wolfsburg Vanagon (Sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708000&highlight=

Microsquirt Conversion Guide (Work now Discontinued): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1laXykNPbRYS8MT...2imqd2pnx7

[valvecovergasket]

email me a datalog of it attempting to start, and the tune file youre using while attempting the start

your 02 pinning with key on is normal - theyll peg to whatever the default warmup reading is (innovate units this is programmable but is either 22:1 or ~7:1) then sit at whatever the full oxygen reading is until you get something moving through there.
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MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com

gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread

[Steve Arndt]

What kind of injector pulse width are you seeing while cranking?
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Steve
Steve's 87 Syncro project

[10degnorth]

I’ve made a bit more progress since the last post. Got the engine to fire and stay alive with the pedal, then I got it to idle in its own barely then it died and since then I haven’t been able to start it again, it cranks but no start. At the moment I’m seeing pulses of 10-12 when cranking.
_________________
1984 Wolfsburg Vanagon (Current Project): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=773912&highlight=

1988 Microsquirted, Wolfsburg Vanagon (Sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708000&highlight=

Microsquirt Conversion Guide (Work now Discontinued): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1laXykNPbRYS8MT...2imqd2pnx7

[10degnorth]

Alrighty, here's the latest (mostly a more in-depth write up of my last post).

I learned that you need to ground out the throttle position sensor wire so that the MS doesn't try and use that value for calculation, if it is not grounded out it can float and cause issues.

I counted the teeth on my crank trigger wheel and found that tooth #1 was 80 degrees BTDC (everyone should do this themselves as it may vary). I verified that my cranking timing was accurate by setting it to 0 degrees, removing the fuses to the fuel injectors and cranking with a timing light on the crank pulley (this requires an assistant to crank the van over) my cranking timing was spot on. By recommendation of valvecovergasket I set the cranking timing to 10 degrees advance as a starting place.

With the help of valvecovergasket I was able to get the engine to fire and I could keep it alive with the pedal. After taking a data log of it running it was found that the van EFI was injecting a large amount of fuel hence the requirement to use the pedal to keep it alive, the van needed the extra airflow from the throttle. From there I adjusted the idle boxes in the VE table (upper left, low RPM low load). Once those values were reading in the 70's ish I was able to start the van without using the throttle pedal and it idled for a short time, but not long enough to make any sizable changes before something changes (not sure what) and it backfired a couple times and died.

This backfire lead to the airbox being ejected from its rubber boot and the idle control valve being ejected from its rubber coupling to the plenum. Since this happened I have not been able to get it to fire again on the same settings. My current suspected cause is that the excess fuel being put through the engine fouled spark plugs so my next step is to go through and verify spark and fuel just to be certain. I suspect the backfire was caused by the load or rpm changing rapidly and therefore the veering off into a section of the VE table that I hadn't adjusted yet and flooding the engine with fuel causing the backfire and it to die.

Thanks for tuning in (pun intended) to this update. Feedback and suggestions are greatly appreciated, it's close, I can feel it.

Credit where credit is due, thank you so much to valvecovergasket for working through this with me and helping me understand my data logs and what's happening.

I figure this is also some good information I'd like to throw out there that helped me a lot regarding what pulse widths seem reasonable.

[valvecovergasket]

Ball park rule of thumb also if it's backfiring through the intake - timing too advanced, through the exhaust - timing too retarded.
After a hard intake backfire make sure you didn't lose the MAP signal line to the ECU, that'll make it really cranky to restart as it'll think it's permanently at full load

Sounds like you're almost there!
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MegaSquirt resource - SpitfireEFI.com

gone, but not forgotten: '83 tdi westy - swap thread