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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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 Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:31 pm Post subject: Spring Plate Fun! |
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Not much of a day, really, just a couple of hours.
Mostly spent digging stuff out of the far corners of the nether..
Brent, Look! 
Dug out rear suspension stuff..
Check out the cool old 1 7/8" thin wrench from BITD.
Can use it to adjust ride height in the rear.. 
Using the caliper to set the adjustment at dead center.
That led to the torsion setting song/dance.
Assembled that stuff, then started stabbing trailing arms,
When I realized I left the lock bolt out..  
Back apart..
That led me down another rabbit hole..
What's the torque supposed to be on these nuts anyways??
Looks like it's an M16 because it takes a 24mm socket.
Grade markings are missing because I had to shave the heads down.
Wouldn't surprise me if it was a 10.9.
Could what we might call a 'spring plate half adjuster bolt'
Is called a "Adjuster Lever to Spring Strut"?? 
Either way, 180 ft. lbs. is a LOT! 
And it doesn't align with the printed specs for the grades.. 
Any of you guys out there speak Porsche?
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Qldelsie
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2019
Posts: 518
Location: Queensland Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Nice.
Glad you posted that pic of the stock part.
After so much adventure with mine, it's nice to remember where it started.
Did your car have four little rubber washers between the plate and pan?
Were they still in good shape?
Have seen them get a bit smushed with time.. |
Ha ha - Yes it DID have four little rubber washers between the plate and the pan ! I consider them in good enough shape to use again. I thought of making up some new ones from some thin rubber sheet I have, but decided that can wait.
As I have said before, my car is weird - First of all because it was made in Aus from a German CKD kit, with 1970 as its birthday, but many parts are '69 or even '68 (ie low back seats). I have no history at all, but while parts of it seem original (blue VW stamped oil seals in rear axle) other parts look really worn. Maybe it had a hard but short working life ??? These rubber washers and the big rubber subframe bushings are an example - Seemingly never touched in 50 years based on their condition. Scrape the surface rust off and there is shiny metal underneath !! The floor entire floor pan cleaned up with just a small wire brush attached to a hand drill. No complaints from me on that !
G
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Qldelsie
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2019
Posts: 518
Location: Queensland Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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You know so much more than I, but aren't those bolts "Spring Plate Bolts" ? In which case Bentley says 87 ft/lbs for my car. I am sure you have that anyway, but a page dump of the numbers attached for the 1968 - 1973 book.
Also, when setting the suspension, I didn't have an "inclinometer" (I have very few tools) so I used my iPhone - Worked perfectly !!
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Not a Porsche guy (contact Nate), but if I had to guess, I's say about 160 to 175 ftlbs. If you look at the torque spec for the spring plate to trailing arms, they're smaller bolts and are torqued to 90 ftlbs. Just a thought. I'd probably add a drop of blue loctite once I have them set where I want them.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Brent
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 1614
Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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The collars look good, nice and fat on one side of the lowers. Wonder if you'll get a little more positive caster using them.
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Berg5 Build |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Spring Plate Fun! |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Check out the cool old 1 7/8" thin wrench from BITD.
Can use it to adjust ride height in the rear..
|
 DOH! 
So, turns out, posting on the Pelican Parts forum last night,
I was able to confirm that it is indeed 180 ft. lbs.
And, no, that little wrench ain't gonna help back up 180 lbs.. 
Couldn't resist trying for my 180 on these this morning in the vise..
Wasn't having any luck! 
180 is a shit-ton if you can't get gravity to help.
Being old and weak as a kitten certainly didn't either.
Also, the thinning i did to the bolts to clear the sub made the socket slip.
And, as you might know, after the socket has slipped once.. 
Finally came up with this invention to retain the socket..
Another thing, was that yanking for all I was worth wasn't giving me the 'click' I needed.
Sweet Jesus! I tweaked my self trying!
Finally, i turned it down to like 150 to see what I was good for,
And no problem... Click-click.
Went up 160 - 170 - 180, and click-click no sweat.
So, clicker torque wrench weirdness.. A tip for ya if you're ever in the same boat.
Creeping up on my number made it almost easy.
Been walking crooked all day. That adventure sucked ass.
I'm NEVER adjusting ride height that way.
I'll stab the torsion bars a dozen times gladly first!
Yet another nonsense re-do adventure..
These hard urethane 'Weltmeister' outer spring plate grommets never fit right.
The ID was too big, even with wrinkle powder coat on.
The OD was way too big, so I had to sand them down.
I thought I had a better rubber set here somewhere,
But they were the wrong thickness,
So the urethane went (grudgingly) back on.
Loaded up with that special "no squeak" urethane grease..
Then, later, sorting bolts, what do you know?
Here the little fuckers are!
Back apart for a third time..
These are rubber from 'Elephant Racing'.
Had to clean off wrinkle powder, as they fit tight,
Plus, you're sposeta super-glue them down.
Yes, I taped off that bolt/nut. No way in hell I was pulling/stabbing them again.. 
Dish soap goes on the OD of the bush,
And they include these long bolts to draw the cover into place,
Cause it all fits tighter than tight.
This made me WAY happier about the spring plates and bushings.
It's all way tight all around.
Third time's the charm..
Got on with sorting out trailing arm hardware..
Even got the pivots tight..!
It says the washer/shims can go either stacked both on the outside like so,
Or on either side,
Depending upon this or that confusing nonsense in the bible..
So I put them on like I found them..
Even though everything is completely different..
But it felt good to do regardless..
Oh,
And,
Everything gets anti-sieze..
I'm (obviously ) the chump that's going to have to be taking these things back apart,
So we don't want Loc-Tite anything making that harder than it already is!
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Xevin 
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7635
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Looking great buddy.
Since we couldn’t have a Pan On Party. I like the idea you have of us all getting together for a “Track day” party at Laguna Seca instead. Really looking forward driving that Fastback through the Andretti Hairpin. You did say Track day or was I dreaming that? 
Keep up the good work clatter!
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Yeah, ha ha.
Isn’t it something like $10,000 a lap or some such..?
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Spring Plate Fun! |
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| Clatter wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
Check out the cool old 1 7/8" thin wrench from BITD.
Can use it to adjust ride height in the rear..
|
DOH!
So, turns out, posting on the Pelican Parts forum last night,
I was able to confirm that it is indeed 180 ft. lbs.
And, no, that little wrench ain't gonna help back up 180 lbs..
Couldn't resist trying for my 180 on these this morning in the vise..
Wasn't having any luck!
180 is a shit-ton if you can't get gravity to help.
Being old and weak as a kitten certainly didn't either.
Also, the thinning i did to the bolts to clear the sub made the socket slip.
And, as you might know, after the socket has slipped once..
Finally came up with this invention to retain the socket..
Another thing, was that yanking for all I was worth wasn't giving me the 'click' I needed.
Sweet Jesus! I tweaked my self trying!
Finally, i turned it down to like 150 to see what I was good for,
And no problem... Click-click.
Went up 160 - 170 - 180, and click-click no sweat.
So, clicker torque wrench weirdness.. A tip for ya if you're ever in the same boat.
Creeping up on my number made it almost easy.
Been walking crooked all day. That adventure sucked ass.
I'm NEVER adjusting ride height that way.
I'll stab the torsion bars a dozen times gladly first!
Yet another nonsense re-do adventure..
These hard urethane 'Weltmeister' outer spring plate grommets never fit right.
The ID was too big, even with wrinkle powder coat on.
The OD was way too big, so I had to sand them down.
I thought I had a better rubber set here somewhere,
But they were the wrong thickness,
So the urethane went (grudgingly) back on.
Loaded up with that special "no squeak" urethane grease..
Then, later, sorting bolts, what do you know?
Here the little fuckers are!
Back apart for a third time..
These are rubber from 'Elephant Racing'.
Had to clean off wrinkle powder, as they fit tight,
Plus, you're sposeta super-glue them down.
Yes, I taped off that bolt/nut. No way in hell I was pulling/stabbing them again..
Dish soap goes on the OD of the bush,
And they include these long bolts to draw the cover into place,
Cause it all fits tighter than tight.
This made me WAY happier about the spring plates and bushings.
It's all way tight all around.
Third time's the charm..
Got on with sorting out trailing arm hardware..
Even got the pivots tight..!
It says the washer/shims can go either stacked both on the outside like so,
Or on either side,
Depending upon this or that confusing nonsense in the bible..
So I put them on like I found them..
Even though everything is completely different..
But it felt good to do regardless..
Oh,
And,
Everything gets anti-sieze..
I'm (obviously ) the chump that's going to have to be taking these things back apart,
So we don't want Loc-Tite anything making that harder than it already is!
|
The pan is really starting to look good now that you're dressing it out (putting on parts).
Are you going to do the front nest? Or add the trans and drive axles? Shifter set up in place yet?
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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T3Yoshi
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2016
Posts: 158
Location: Sonoma County
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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The pan looks so good! Glad you're getting a little time from work to work on the fasty.
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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Oh, man, guys, I can't even tell you...!
It's just SO much fun putting these things in place finally once and for all.
Can't even decide what to do next..
TBPH, I had forgotten just how much effort went into making all of these things fit and work together!
Those trailing arms would have their own separate chapter.
At this stage, where it's just "dig it out, wipe it off, bolt it on"..
Priceless!
Spent all day yesterday staining a fence for Mom.
Earned me a full car day today..
Kid even promised to help.
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Brent
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2010
Posts: 1614
Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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What is this blasphemy?
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69 Fastback Build
Berg5 Build |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:17 am Post subject: Car's Not Done Yet |
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| Brent wrote: |
What is this blasphemy?
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Car's not done yet!
Got a whole day in today.. It's getting closer..
Started off with noticing the spring plates being too 'sunk in' towards the center of the car..
Urethane inner bushes weren't as wide as another (factory?) rubber set I had.
4th time's the charm! 
Moved on to arms and that led to cables.
Anyone who ever ran an antique Harley knows about Dri-Slide.
Locks Paul made for the trailing arm pivot bolts;
Supposedly SOP for desert cars back in the day.
Had to shorten the bolts and run a die deeper to make them more tidy.
I'll show details on these once they go in place and get some proper nuts for them..
E-brake cables -almost- ended up being too long.
Still a few threads left; can put spacers underneath if they end up stretching badly.
Got the rear all done, heater controls as well.
Anything with blue tape is still not tight.
Big axle nuts wait until the car is on the ground,
Spring plate-to-trailing arm bolts wait until the front end is on and a preliminary alignment done.
So,
Other than tightening a couple of bolts,
The rear is done!
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catbox
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2007
Posts: 866
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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This is so very exciting!
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:07 pm Post subject: Front End Final Assembly Starts |
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Welp, it was my day off; Finished up work about 2 or so..
Got a really good four hours in.
Always wanted to do some of my own polishing..
You'll see three different buffer motors on the ground there,
All of which I had gotten for free.
The one on the stand is from Harbor Freight (an essential business, apparently).
It will need another shaft extension, and we'll also have to figure out how to mount their wheels,
Because, erm, the thing jumps around so much I can't actually use it yet.
We'll see how this goes as the adventure continues..
Finally, after procrastinating, I jumped on some more buffing of the beam.
Something about struggling to get something done right, and only 'kind of helping it along' isn't exactly inspiring..
Only after it was all shined up did i see that crooked bottom lip.
Now's the time.
Not entirely an accident that the roller pan had it's hardware handy for reference.
Decided to make the grease zerks actually accessible with a grease gun! 
(Yeah I caught that it was on the rong side.. )
Had a helper to stuff the beam.
That led to stabbing a steering box and sway bar.
Those down-rod links will need shortened.
Going to do a whole mock-up without torsions to make sure everything cycles through travel, and final length of rods can be determined.
Also need to remove some powder from underneath the ball-joint lock-washers when i have it apart again.
I'm all skeered thick powder will cause things to loosen.
Here's those trailing arm pivot locks Paul made:
A short bolt is red Loc-Tite'd with a nut as tight as i can get it.
There's a bolt welded to the side of the pivot bracket,
And it goes thru the other end, double-nutted just to keep it there.
How it works is the bolt head fits inside the pivot bolt.
If the pivot bolt loosens, it has to force the bolt tighter in order to do so.
Pretty trick, eh? Sure beats staking with a punch at least.
Anyways, carts are starting to get pretty sparse,
And some spindles are sitting there..
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Black Fastback Build Thread |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
| Coming along nicely. Alot of detail in this pan assembly. Keep pecking away at it and it'll be a roller by the end of the weekend if not sooner! |
Agreed. Looking good and coming along nicely.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22463
Location: Escondido CA
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