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CapeDory
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2013
Posts: 14
Location: Lewes, Delaware
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 Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| Just getting back to the topic subject. I found that same problem...the pipes pulled easily out of the carb and out of the fuel pump. I could not stop thinking about a fire when I drove my '67. I sent the carb and the fuel pump to Tim at Volksbitz.com and he did a terrific job of replacing all of the potential disaster pipes with barb fitting threaded connectors. Not expensive. I also had the carb and fuel pumps fully cleaned and it has been well worth it. I recommend these fittings for peace of mind. |
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HippyTom
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2013
Posts: 676
Location: Florida, West Pasco
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:46 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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Question: if you have a carb inlet that is not loose, can you put a bead of solder or JB weld around the tube/boss connection or will those products not stick to the two metals? Then safety wire it in addition?
The ultimate fix seems to be send it off to be tapped and install a threaded tube. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| HippyTom wrote: |
Question: if you have a carb inlet that is not loose, can you put a bead of solder or JB weld around the tube/boss connection or will those products not stick to the two metals? Then safety wire it in addition?
The ultimate fix seems to be send it off to be tapped and install a threaded tube. |
The carb is aluminum casting, the tube is brass.
If the tube is not loose, I'd say to just safety wire it. That's what I've done on mine.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| HippyTom wrote: |
Question: if you have a carb inlet that is not loose, can you put a bead of solder or JB weld around the tube/boss connection or will those products not stick to the two metals? Then safety wire it in addition?
The ultimate fix seems to be send it off to be tapped and install a threaded tube. |
The carb is aluminum casting, the tube is brass.
If the tube is not loose, I'd say to just safety wire it. That's what I've done on mine. |
ditto that...
solder wont work well with the metals used, aluminum is difficult to solder...
https://app.aws.org/wj/2004/02/046/
I have used locktite and the safety wire when the fitting was found loose, and removed, if not loose, safety wire only.
Bead of jb weld on the exterior may do very little good, unless maybe it is really gooped on, then it is a mess to look at. Id not do that. if the fitting is tight, simply wire it up and you should have zero problem with it falling out and causing a leak/fire,
good luck, bug on!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| CapeDory wrote: |
| Just getting back to the topic subject. I found that same problem...the pipes pulled easily out of the carb and out of the fuel pump. I could not stop thinking about a fire when I drove my '67. I sent the carb and the fuel pump to Tim at Volksbitz.com and he did a terrific job of replacing all of the potential disaster pipes with barb fitting threaded connectors. Not expensive. I also had the carb and fuel pumps fully cleaned and it has been well worth it. I recommend these fittings for peace of mind. |
I've restored 100's of the Pierburg fuel pumps. The vast majority of the tubes are still tight in the bodies. Some are loose and they are re-installed with epoxy and will NEVER come out again.
You don't need to screw barb fittings into the bodies of the carb or fuel pump. Will it hurt, absolutely not. However, epoxy or certain Loctite products will secure the tubes in the body for life.
What's important is for people to NOT yank, tug on or pull on the fuel hoses when removing them off the tubes. That's what causes the tubes to be loose or pulled out of the bodies. Another No-NO is to hang a heavy fuel filter between the fuel pump and carb. The weight of the full fuel filter can over time pull the tube out of the carb causing an obvious fire.
When I remove my fuel hoses from the carb or fuel pump tubes, I slit the fuel hose lengthwise down the brass tube to relieve the gripping tension of the hose off the tube. I then can remove the hose w/out putting any tension on the tube.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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HippyTom
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2013
Posts: 676
Location: Florida, West Pasco
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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I'm going to safety wire both my Bugs first chance I get.
I had a fuel pump dumping gas everywhere recently, but it wasn't tube related. Just swapped it out with all new stuff and it was fine. I keep a few extras on hand. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| When I remove my fuel hoses from the carb or fuel pump tubes, I slit the fuel hose lengthwise down the brass tube to relieve the gripping tension of the hose off the tube. I then can remove the hose w/out putting any tension on the tube. |
There used to be a series on cable TV called ShadeTree Mechanic, was very good, check YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq0w_YMflr0. Anyway, the mechanics there recommended slitting hoses too to remove.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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Even if your fitting has never been tugged on, always slitted hose for removal, the fitting may still come loose. The carb material can creep, effectively expanding the fitting bore, thus causing the fitting to be loose. I have found some with the bore so enlarged, that there is no longer a press fit, more like a clearance fit. The bores can open up!
If the bore has opened just a bit, it will weaken its grip on the fitting, then if you tug a hose, even gentle like, its grip can fail and come loose.
But just because your not tugging on it, dont assume it is still factory tight.
In some ways however, tugging on the hose for hose removal is a good thing, tugging on it proof tests the grip. doing so can detect a very loose one.
I have had them pull out during hose removal, not a big tug, but enough to easily have it fall out. It was ready to fail, was very loose, I am glad I did tug it! Better it fail then and there, in my driveway, engine off, than when on the road, driving, with fire risk!
Good Luck Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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VinoLush
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2013
Posts: 28
Location: Ventura, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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Guys... I didn't see specifically in the posts... Does this tube issue only happen on Solex Carbs? Empi or others have the same issue?
I guess the pump tube could also be safety wired?
_________________
It Takes About A Half Day To Get There....
If We Travel By My Dragonfly.... |
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7028
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| VinoLush wrote: |
Guys... I didn't see specifically in the posts... Does this tube issue only happen on Solex Carbs? Empi or others have the same issue?
I guess the pump tube could also be safety wired? |
It's not just Solex carbs that can exhibit this problem, all manufacture of carbs and fuel pumps with press in fittings can have this happen. You can safety wire the fittings on carbs and pumps to keep them from popping out.
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9772
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2020 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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It can happen on any brass to aluminum tube. They are mostly press fit and are susceptible to being pulled out of their respective socket when the hose is pulled on. It's a good practice to cut a slit on the fuel line to remove it from the brass nipple.
This came out of a Borsol carb while driving. Luckily the engine didn't catch fire.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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CarolineL
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2019
Posts: 1
Location: Hobart Tasmania AUS
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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My first post is a huge thank you to all who wrote on fuel leaks arising from pressed tubing into fuel pumps or carburetors.
I’m working on a 1970 1500cc bug with original fuel pump and carburetor. She has been leaking fuel and I thought I had fixed it with new fuel lines & jubilee clamps. But still the leak at the fuel pump kept coming. Did some reading of historic Samba posts and then checked the car. Low and behold the fuel pump inlet spigot pulled right out of the pump. Hell! Yesterday we drove all day in blissful ignorance, with a catastrophic engine fire just waiting to happen.
Today went shopping for locktite 609 and safety wire. Oddly 5 auto suppliers I contacted don’t stock it (one had never heard of it). Not too worry I will track it down and learn a new skill to keep our bug going. Thank you Samba contributors. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| CarolineL wrote: |
| Today went shopping for locktite 609 |
Buy online, but Search Loctite 609, no "k".
There also a ton of similar products.....
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| CarolineL wrote: |
My first post is a huge thank you to all who wrote on fuel leaks arising from pressed tubing into fuel pumps or carburetors.
I’m working on a 1970 1500cc bug with original fuel pump and carburetor. She has been leaking fuel and I thought I had fixed it with new fuel lines & jubilee clamps. But still the leak at the fuel pump kept coming. Did some reading of historic Samba posts and then checked the car. Low and behold the fuel pump inlet spigot pulled right out of the pump. Hell! Yesterday we drove all day in blissful ignorance, with a catastrophic engine fire just waiting to happen.
Today went shopping for locktite 609 and safety wire. Oddly 5 auto suppliers I contacted don’t stock it (one had never heard of it). Not too worry I will track it down and learn a new skill to keep our bug going. Thank you Samba contributors. |
You want to use Loctite 603 retaining compound on that brass tube. Rough up the area of the tube that will be pressed into the casting of the pump. Scratch up the bore as well where the tube will slide into. Then clean both areas with alcohol or brake/carb cleaner. Apply the Loctite to the tube all the way around. Press in and wipe off excess. Once it sets up, the tube won't come out again. You should do the same to the tube on the carb.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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wdfifteen
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2019
Posts: 529
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| Bill, I got a fuel pump from you. Do you routinely pull out the tube and Loc-Tite it back in? If not, I assume I should safety wire the fuel pump outlet. |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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| wdfifteen wrote: |
| Bill, I got a fuel pump from you. Do you routinely pull out the tube and Loc-Tite it back in? If not, I assume I should safety wire the fuel pump outlet. |
Yes, every fuel pump I rebuild has the brass tubes removed and then Loctited back in so they don't come out again. 
It's still a good practice for owners to slice the rubber fuel hoses lengthwise down the tube to remove or peal off the braided fuel lines from the carb tubes and pumps. Most carb inlet tubes are not very tight in their bores. Too many people yank or pull the rubber hoses off the tubes which can then loosen or pull the tubes out partially. Bad things happen then.
If the tube/s have been loctited in with the retaining compound, there's zero need to lockwire them as well. The tubes won't come out again unless you heat up the tube/bore to like 500° to melt the loctite. Even then they are a bear to remove. 
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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67conv
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2005
Posts: 386
Location: Simi Valley, California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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Just a graphic reminder of what can, and in my case DID happen last Friday! The bottom photo clearly shows the outlet pipe had popped out of the fuel pump housing, allowing fuel to spew out and ignite!
I was extremely fortunate that someone who was witnessing the fire ran over with a fire extinguisher, as I foolishly didn't have one on board! Be forewarned! I never thought it would happen to me in 50 years of acvw ownership!
_________________
1967 VW Convertible, owned /driven /pampered for 34 years.
1957 DKW 3=6, owned /driven /risen from the dead for 20 years.
Previously owned: 72 "Baja Champion SE" Spec. Edition Super Beetle bought NEW; 79 Convertible bought NEW; 67 type 1 savanna beige; 67 2.0 911S; 73 2.4 911T; 63 356 T6 B Cabriolet; 64 356 SC sunroof coupe; 72 Type-3 Squareback; 68 + 69 Type-3 Fastbacks; 87 Vanagon GL Wasserboxer |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6621
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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The factory press fit the tubes into the pump. There's a reason they become loose.
I'd be more concerned with rebuilders who shelter themselves behind an LLC. The end customer has little recourse if the pump leaks, causes a fire, and burns the whole car.
_________________
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Last edited by heimlich on Thu Aug 24, 2023 3:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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That sucks!
That's an Airtek brand economy fuel pump sold at most FLAPS. They are notorious for those tubes coming out. They are also known to put out more than 5psi for fuel pressure too. A customer said he got 7 psi out of his before pulling it off and replacing it with a rebuilt German Pierburg pump.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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67conv
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2005
Posts: 386
Location: Simi Valley, California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Failure, Huge Leak, Safety Wire Fix |
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This was an aftermarket pump, from Autozone. Bought in a pinch a couple years ago. Not sure about what sort of factory QC methods apply to these Chinese things. LESS than 600 miles usage, I can't imagine why it would come loose like that!
_________________
1967 VW Convertible, owned /driven /pampered for 34 years.
1957 DKW 3=6, owned /driven /risen from the dead for 20 years.
Previously owned: 72 "Baja Champion SE" Spec. Edition Super Beetle bought NEW; 79 Convertible bought NEW; 67 type 1 savanna beige; 67 2.0 911S; 73 2.4 911T; 63 356 T6 B Cabriolet; 64 356 SC sunroof coupe; 72 Type-3 Squareback; 68 + 69 Type-3 Fastbacks; 87 Vanagon GL Wasserboxer |
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