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72VWSB Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2018 Posts: 707 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 6:01 pm Post subject: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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Planning on changing my setup, single 40 Dellorto to dual carbs on my pretty fresh 1915 engine. Runs pretty good as is but I don't have heater tubes due to my new exhaust setup so dual carbs might be better once it starts getting cool. Thinking of going with the EMPI Dual 40HPMX Dual Carb Kit. Any suggestions or words of wisdom? Plan on taking the old carb off, manifold and spruce up the engine compartment before the install...
_________________ 72 VW Super Beetle |
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Howard 111 Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005 Posts: 1827 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2020 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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Single carb to dual carbs makes a big difference. Good luck with it! _________________ 1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270 |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12743 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 4:54 am Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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Those big holes in your rear tin where the heat risers used to be need to be closed up along with that hole on the right side behind the pulley. |
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Dan Ruddock Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012 Posts: 3594 Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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oprn wrote: |
Those big holes in your rear tin where the heat risers used to be need to be closed up along with that hole on the right side behind the pulley. |
X2, I also would get a better oil filler/separator. Dan |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7219 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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Well, yes, but the outlet from the filler does go into a second small breather box before it leaves into open air. He´ll be alright. |
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72VWSB Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2018 Posts: 707 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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oprn wrote: |
Those big holes in your rear tin where the heat risers used to be need to be closed up along with that hole on the right side behind the pulley. |
Right side behind pulley? _________________ 72 VW Super Beetle |
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Ohio_Style Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2007 Posts: 610 Location: You'll never leave Sparta alive, Ohio
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12743 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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72VWSB wrote: |
oprn wrote: |
Those big holes in your rear tin where the heat risers used to be need to be closed up along with that hole on the right side behind the pulley. |
Right side behind pulley? |
Yup. That is the dipstick? Not? It will be leaking road dust and hot air around that too just like the other holes.
You also have several small holes in the fan shroud that will be leaking cooling air. Not a big deal but every little bit makes some difference. |
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72VWSB Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2018 Posts: 707 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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Thank you for the "cover up the holes" replies! lol Yes, I have been negligent taking care of those! But, perhaps I could get some replies from those who have jumped off the single carb wagon and installed dual EMPI's? _________________ 72 VW Super Beetle |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9654 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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Have you ever installed dual carburetors of any type onto a Beetle engine?
From what I've read on theSamba, some HPMX kits have manifolds that bring each carb too close to a full-width fan shroud, so that the narrower 36 hp style is needed. There may be a "deluxe" HPMX kit with different manifolds which do enable the carbs to fit close to the factory shroud.
-You'll probably need to move your oil breather box more to the center of the firewall to clear the right carb's air filter.
-Your alternator clamp is not correctly positioned and will likely interfere with a high-mount crossbar-style linkage. Just loosen the clamp and rotate it CW so that the fasteners are at the 3:00 position.
-Use thick fiber gaskets between the head and the manifold, not stock-style layered metal. Such gaskets should come with the carb kit. Good to have a few extra pairs in case they peel apart when you take the manifold off in the future.
-Take each carb apart one at a time, and blow through all passages (remove jets).
-Usual process to mount a carb is to install the carb onto its manifold outside of the car. Place the carb/manifold assembly down onto the manifold studs on the head, and wiggle while pushing the assembly down so the manifold sits fully against the gasket and head. Getting the lockwasher and fastening nut onto each of the two studs is done mostly be feel for the front ones, so put only one washer down onto the manifold, bring your hand up and then put the nut on.
-To fasten the front nut on the manifold base, I use a swivel-head socket, and about 3 extensions to get the ratchet up to the height of the top of the fan shroud.
-You get a slight bit more access room to get those attachment nuts down onto the manifold bases with your hand if you keep your air filter bases off.
-Have a telescoping magnet pick-up tool handy in case one of those fasteners misses the studs and falls down somewhere on the engine. I've had them fall into the spark plug area through the cylinder cover tin spark plug holes; only way to get them out is with a pickup tool.
-Before you even put either carb/manifold assembly onto either head, run a M8 x 1.25 die over the 4 attachment studs on the heads so that your fastening nuts spin freely.
-You'll need block-off plates for the muffler's two preheat outlet flanges, since you're not using it compared to the current intake manifold.
-Put your red spark plug cables into the 3 stock wire holders that fit onto the fan shroud face. |
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72VWSB Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2018 Posts: 707 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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No, I have never installed dual carbs on a beetle engine before...thanks for all the valuable information here...I may want to pull the engine first and change shroud I would think? _________________ 72 VW Super Beetle |
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j-dub Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2003 Posts: 865 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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The other option may be to buy a second DRLA or a matched pair of DRLAs then you have the advantage of buying the manifolds the best fit YOUR car/configuration and the linkage YOU want. _________________ 1957 Oval rag
"POLICE STATION TOILET STOLEN ... Cops have nothing to go on." |
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mcdragracer Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2007 Posts: 714 Location: Cally
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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That would be my vote to get another dellorto and get another dellorto and dellorto manifold and linkage and you won't have a clearance problem on the fan shroud. |
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72VWSB Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2018 Posts: 707 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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That would mean two manifolds and another dellorto...why isn't there a clearance factor with the delortos? _________________ 72 VW Super Beetle |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26790 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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CB's sedan manifolds should work.
I think I heard empi's delux kit where they copied CB's manifolds, but I don't know. I always buy CB manifolds. |
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72VWSB Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2018 Posts: 707 Location: New Mexico
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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Hmm, this one seems to fit a standard shroud...at Jbugs, for my larger engine too
_________________ 72 VW Super Beetle |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20380 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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IF you get second Del you will have to rejet the one you have as it is now it will be two rich with each barrel feeding single cylinder...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Sun May 24, 2020 6:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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The HPMX carbs are great. I've only had one issue with an early set years ago. Their basic manifolds won't clear a stock doghouse shroud. The linkage leaves a lot to be desired. The rod ends are cheap and loose and the crossbar is pretty flimsy. I tossed at the hardware, redrilled the holes in the arms and used quality 1/4" hardware.
brad |
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gringoloco2000 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2013 Posts: 150 Location: Debary, FL
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 11:38 pm Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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Follow the great advice to clean them well. You will find shavings and other crap in them. Also look up how to measure and set the float level. Mine were not correct.
Another thing that will save you some trouble is getting jet doctors which are essentially snorkles for the idle jets. I heard that some new kits might come with them. If not get a set from CB. Clogged idle jets is a common issue.
Others mentioned the linkage. It is not great on the base kit.. Berg linkage is what I use but CSP is nice as well as the CB hex kit with their air filters.
When they are tuned right, they are great, but there is a learning curve. Good luck.
Oh, almost forgot. Read the dual carb tuning guide John has on Aircooled.net. it is very helpful.
https://www.aircooled.net/synchronize-dual-vw-carburetors-103/ _________________ '68 Rust Bucket |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20380 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Think I'm gonna take the EMPI dual carb plunge? |
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And there is this sticky...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=572107
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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