Seeking Advice on Quality Tie Rod Ends

[GearHeadKeith]

My 1971 Super Beetle is due for new inner tie rod ends. I replaced the rest of the suspension with parts from TopLine 18 years / 17k miles ago: the inner tie rod ends are the only component that was not replaced at that time. One is loose and I plan to replace both of them.

On my American cars I always buy MOOG suspension components, so I bought a set of MOOG grease-able inner tie rod ends. However, I am starting to second-guess this approach as nothing else on the front of my car requires service.

RockAuto.Com sells the following brands of non-grease-able tie rod ends for a 1971 Super Beetle:

Beck-Arnley
Quick Steer (MOOG's entry level brand)
URO
SKP
Delphi
AC Delco
Mevotech

Do any of you have a positive experience with any of these brands of tie rod ends?
_________________
Keith Gilbert - DdK
1971 Super Beetle sedan, Shantung yellow with black interior. Cosmetically unrestored with over 366k miles.
1776cc: 9.2:1 compression, dual Weber 40DCN on Deano intakes, Primo Petrucci 40mm/36mm round-port heads, Crower VW284F cam, Kymco 1.5" exhaust
SSC trans with 3.78/2.25/1.48/1.04 & 4.12 Gleason R&P, Type IV output flanges, Berg Shifter
Topline front struts/springs/sway bar, Sway-a-Way rear bar, 4-wheel disc brakes
Owned since 1994: 3rd owner since new!

[sb001]

I know this isn't your question, but may I ask why you aren't just ordering the tie rod ends from Topline? They actually have a set of inners and outers for $60 so you could just replace all four and have them all new...

https://toplineparts.com/tie-rod-end-set-fits-all-71-74-super-beetle-87-0075.html
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1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[GearHeadKeith]

Because I only need inner tie rod ends as my outer tie rod ends are fine. It appears that Topline only sells them in a set of all 4
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Keith Gilbert - DdK
1971 Super Beetle sedan, Shantung yellow with black interior. Cosmetically unrestored with over 366k miles.
1776cc: 9.2:1 compression, dual Weber 40DCN on Deano intakes, Primo Petrucci 40mm/36mm round-port heads, Crower VW284F cam, Kymco 1.5" exhaust
SSC trans with 3.78/2.25/1.48/1.04 & 4.12 Gleason R&P, Type IV output flanges, Berg Shifter
Topline front struts/springs/sway bar, Sway-a-Way rear bar, 4-wheel disc brakes
Owned since 1994: 3rd owner since new!

[green1303]

The OEM brand is Lemfoerder. You need two of this part number for the inner tie rod ends.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/porsche-volkswagen-steering-tie-rod-end-311415811c
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1973 green Super Beetle

[GearHeadKeith]

Thanks!

[RailBoy]

Something to throw in....

Don't use a tie rod fork, use a ball joint removal tool. a fork can damage a good ball joint.. RB
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[quote="smitty24"]"HELP, I ported my own heads and now have fire coming out my ass" .[/quote]

[ashman40]

Given the choice of tie rod ends with a grease fitting or w/o... choose with fitting or at least a hole where a fitting could be installed. Check the box and confirm WHERE it was made. Unfortunately, even some of the well known brands are sourcing parts from places like China. Often the box will give away where it comes from.

Tie rods are a commodity part that wears out and needs to be replaced once in a while. While there are small differences between manufacturers Moog is a well known brand which I would trust more than some unknown brand.

Having said all of that... my last experience with a set of tie rod ends leave me to feel like no brand will last as long as OE ones. The rubber boots on my "brand new" tie rods cracked within 2yrs (more like just over a year). This led to the grease getting contaminated. Having grease fittings could aid in keeping clean/fresh grease in them, but if the boots crack you will need to replace the boots which is not always easy. Other than the lifespan of the boots, I had no problem with the no-name tie rod ends.


I plan on using urethane tie rod end boots on my next replacement. These should last longer, but I'm not certain if they will contain the grease as well as rubber ones which flex better. We shall see...
https://www.mooreparts.com/urethane-tie-rod-boot-set-4/
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Tim Donahoe]

Topline’s reason for selling all four tie rod ends is valid. For example, I had a custom wheel alignment shop install mine, prior to alignment. Apparently, the previous owner had installed one of the inners with a right hand thread that required a left hand thread(or vice versa). Fortunately, Wolfgang International here in town was open, and I told him he sold me the wrong side tie rod end. He corrected me by saying he sold me the correct one, but the one on my car was the wrong one.

He traded me for another wrong one—which fit—and all was good.

Topline explains why he sells four at once, for the very reason my story relates.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[ashman40]

@Tim, does this mean one of your tie rods has the same handed threaded tie rod ends on both ends? RH-RH or LH-LH?

Or is your tie rod just installed backwards with the inner tie rod on the outer end and visa versa?
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AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Tim Donahoe]

Ash, I didn’t install it myself. I just remember going to Wolfgang’s and getting the proper tie rod ends, and one of them didn’t thread on as it should have. In retrospect, the rod was probably installed backward.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[sb001]

[ashman40]

As long as there is a LH on one end of the rod and a RH on the other it will work. Having the rod flipped the backwards just means you twist the rod in the opposite direction to get it to lengthen or shorten.

If, on the other hand you somehow ended up with two RH or two LH tie rod ends on the same rod... when you rotate the rod it just slides left or right along the length w/o changing the overall length. The rods become non-adjustable and the alignment guy sits there "scratching his head".

This seems more of a problem on the SB tie rods as the two outer rods are very similar with similar tie rod ends. The STD Beetle has four different tie rod ends. One of each type is needed. The rod with the steering damper can only go on one way. The shorter tie rod has a "bent neck" tie rod on one end that only fits well one way, but I supposed could be installed flipped backwards.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[wcfvw69]

One thing to consider is tie rods can cause steering binding as much as a ball joint can. I agree with Ash in that ideally you'd like to find a greasable tie rod. Napa typically sells professional grade tie rods of a higher quality as does Rock Auto.

As also mentioned, even known big name brands have their parts made in China these days and the quality is hit and miss. Tie rods were being made in Italy by some companies and their quality was better.

Whatever brand you go with, check them before you simply install them on your VW. Put the nut on the tie rod and with a wrench see how much effort it takes to spin them in the joint. Even back in the 1980's working at an alignment shop, we'd run across tie rods that had the socked pressed in too tight around the ball. You could barely spin the ball in the socket. I got burned one time when I didn't check it. The road test after installation demonstrated the binding. I had to do the work twice.
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[green1303]

Here are links to the Moog Super Beetle inner tie rod ends with grease fittings and the Italian Ocap brand without:

Moog
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=202319...7wfg%3D%3D

Ocap
https://www.bughaus.com/tie_rod_end_-_311415811c.htm

If you replace the entire tie rod, mine are Lemfoerder brand and were made in Germany as of a few years ago.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volkswagen-steering-tie-rod-assembly-133415801
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1973 green Super Beetle

[jarmchairpilot]

Got to tell you some Meyle brand tie rods I fitted on my standard 72 Bug have been on there 2 years and I am impressed with the quality so far after approx. 5,000 miles driven.
Got

[heimlich]

I use the Meyle brand on my cars. I accidentally ended up with them and tried them otherwise I would have never thought they would be any good. I have been pleasantly surprised. They've been on there for a few years now. They are about $8 to $11 each. I have them on 3 personal cars now.

I've read that when the grease fittings came out people were using them wrong and over filling the tie rod ends. So, companies went to sealed ends since the grease fittings were being used wrong. Keep that in mind when filling the ends with grease.
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[GearHeadKeith]

Thanks to everyone for their responses! This has been very helpful. My game plan is to stick with the greasable MOOG tie rod ends that I already purchased, as they are made in the USA parts and appear to be very high quality. I'll take everyone's advice here into consideration when I made this repair!
_________________
Keith Gilbert - DdK
1971 Super Beetle sedan, Shantung yellow with black interior. Cosmetically unrestored with over 366k miles.
1776cc: 9.2:1 compression, dual Weber 40DCN on Deano intakes, Primo Petrucci 40mm/36mm round-port heads, Crower VW284F cam, Kymco 1.5" exhaust
SSC trans with 3.78/2.25/1.48/1.04 & 4.12 Gleason R&P, Type IV output flanges, Berg Shifter
Topline front struts/springs/sway bar, Sway-a-Way rear bar, 4-wheel disc brakes
Owned since 1994: 3rd owner since new!

[SBD]

Does anybody know of a source for a greaseable right side inner tie rod end for a late standard Beetle? I've managed to find the other three rod ends in a greaseable style but have had no luck finding the right inner. It's the Moog ES422L, the one for the steering dampener. I believe VW uses these #s, 131415813D, 131415813E, and 131415813F.
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"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"

[DesignBuild]

Check this website address. The part you are looking for is there.

https://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-es422l

You may have to drill and tap the end cap to install a grease nipple.

I have a 1972 Super Beetle. I ended up getting tie rod ends from JBUGS and they were the German brand Meyle but the little sticker on the box has "Made in China". I installed grease fittings on all the tie rod ends and on the new ball joints. I am replacing all of them because the rubber boots are all torn probably due to age not mileage. I did notice that the original rubber boots are very thin.

The Super Beetle tie rod ends do not mount the damper. It is mounted to the steering arm. On the Supers the outer rod ends are the same left to right and the inner rod ends are the same left to right. I don't know how a rod could have both left on the inner and outer because one of the ends would have to be rethreaded.

[DesignBuild]

Greaseable tie rod ends have been around since the beginning of the automobile. The early ones like 1901 vintage could be taken apart to repair the parts and rubber boots weren't used. What was used for expensive cars were a series of overlapping leaves. These can be seen on the Auto Union racers at the horizontal front ball joints on the trailing arms. Ferdinand Porsche had patents on this arrangement back in the 1930s but never used it on a production car.

The story I heard from researchers at the Texaco Research Center was related to cost not over filling the joint. Many greases improved to the point that adding additional grease wasn't deemed necessary. On cars with grease nipples on the tie rod ends and other rotary joints, I have seen cars with the OEM rods ends still in use at 200,000 miles plus. The only thing that was replaced was the boots. If the suspension arm bushings were greaseable, they would outlast any of the rubber and steel bushings.