How far do I go replacing '82 diesel exhaust

[sphet]

Well last trip my tailpipe fell apart so I need to replace that - then I can see soot leaking out of my muffler and I can hear a ringing rattle because it isn't clamping down on the manifold exhaust pipe, so I need to replace the muffler. Can I stop at that? The exhaust pipe looks solid with no cracks or soot showing, so I am thinking of only doing the muffler and tailpipe (with the 3 isolators). I replaced one of the isolators last year and it wasn't a problem getting the nuts off with pb-blaster and time. However, if I go on to the exhaust pipe I am concerned about everything I've read about breaking the studs off at the manifold - and I don't have a torch to heat up the nuts like I've read I might need. I am hoping i can slide off the muffler without touching the exhaust pipe.

Still learning how to do mechanical work on the van. I see in the Bentley that various connections are made using a bolt, two washers and a nut? Or is one of them a lock-washer and I can skip it if I use nyloc nut? Does the gasket between the muffler and tailpipe have a paste or anything on it?

Here are some pictures - sorry for the bad quality my phone is getting old.

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1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee

[Gnarlodious]

My recommendation is to not even mess with unbolting but take it to a creative welder, assuming the muffler is usable. Its the cheapest solution and will buy you time. The welder doesn’t even have to be an exhaust guy, a clever home mechanic with a scrap pile is better than a specialty shop. If its too rusted out to weld on than you are stuck with either replacing parts or having a custom system made from an exhaust shop.

If you want to do it ‘right’ you can end up incrementally replacing everything, which is the most expensive way. If you do put together new parts be sure to use stainless steel bolts and nuts.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[danfromsyr]

just the muffler and tail pipe is fine.
though I would order the S-bent down pipe to have on hand and not have to wait when you have to eventually change that.
the muffler will come off easily at that time since you've already been into the connection.
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[sphet]

So I have used this down time to get all my muffler parts together and am now ready to order all the fasteners. Does it make sense to use stainless steel here? What hardness is required for the fasteners?

Also - my new tail pipe is primed with a glossy grey while the muffler isn't. Should I paint the muffler? I assume any paint would burn off quickly.
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1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee

[MarkWard]

Are you replacing the down pipe from the exhaust manifold? I am not a fan of stainless hardware. If you use it, use some tuff gel on the threads. There is high temp paint you can find at your local auto parts place that has a better chance of lasting.
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[sphet]

[MarkWard]

Probably a good idea to pass on the downpipe for the moment. That’s probably the original diesel exhaust and down pipe. With patience, heat and some rust penetrant it can be removed without snapping the studs. Hard part for you maybe separating the muffler from that down pipe. See how far you get removing the muffler. Don’t worry about removing the tailpipe from the old muffler. Good luck.
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[ALIKA T3]

Pry the muffler at the slot , it will open up and slide off the downpipe.

Last job I had to do I ended up replacing the cylinder head and manifold, I'm not sure which one was holding what anymore, everything was so trashed!
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[sphet]

Well I am finally getting to this, and I wish I had done it as soon as I received my new muffler. The old one came off just fine without a lot of effort. However, when I went to put the new one on, the geometry doesn't quite line up. The new muffler has terrible welds which is the likely cause for the bad fitment. I should have looked when I received it and just sent it back; I am now past the return window which is fine, that's on me.

I looked at the old muffler and thought "why don't I just put that back on". I have taken the rusted tailpipe off, and cleaned up the face of the mount, ready for the new gasket and tailpipe.

When I rattle the old muffler, it doesn't make any sounds, and nothing comes out, so can I assume it is likely as good (or better) as the new one? It also doesn't having any wearing components like catalytic converter would or anything, right? The only issue I can see is I don't know if I will be able to clamp it down tight enough on the downpipe to remove the vibration I hear. Is there a tape I can wrap around the end of the pipe to get a better fit? I need about 1/16 to 1/8, tops. I have a role aluminum ducting tape, will that survive the heat?

The new muffler arrived banged up worse than the original - it's only the photo but the muffler lengths are the same, but the 'ears' are not quite straight on the new one:

Great welds!

The old muffler cleaned up:

And the other end, which has the clamp tack-welded on:

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1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee

[Abscate]

Blech, crappy welding in easily accessible areas. Such dreck.
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.ssS!

[MarkWard]

The welds don’t appear to be the problem. It looks overall shorter. I’m wondering if you rearranged the mounting brackets if the offset would have located it where it could work.
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[Vanagon Nut]

I see heat penetration on backside of some welds so welds between bracket and muffler likely have same. i.e. welds should hold.

Do you know what brand the new muffler is?

If it's designed anything like a WBX 2.1 muffler, there'll be internal pipes and plates. View inside my old Walker Quiet Flow 2.1 muffler

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hB9Ca3kiknycESLN6

Assuming that the diesel exhaust heat is lower than a similar gas engine, the internal parts may stay in place longer so likely no rattle there yet?

I also think the new muffler looks shorter but I see your comment re: muffler length. Assuming they're the same length....

How far out of alignment are the new muffler brackets to engine brackets?

Are all parts present at the mount brackets? e.g. part 25 ? But if it was missing, maybe the old muffler was "massaged" to fit?

I'd bet diesel muffler et al fitment has been discussed here before.

On my "diesel" Vanagon bracket, IIRC, 25 is present and is bonded to the 8 bracket.

If new muffler mount brackets aren't grossly misaligned to engine brackets would bending the engine passenger side bracket help? i.e. loosely bolt muffler to driver side bracket then passenger side bracket off engine, bend it until it fits? If not, maybe secure a bracket off muffler to bench vise then carefully bend it a *little* ? You'll know soon enough if the welds are no good.

If the downpipe to muffler is new, as you clamp it over the inlet on old muffler, that old muffler metal may be too thin and may never seal properly to the thicker new downpipe metal.

Neil.

is the cracked looking metal leftover from the downpipe? Or is the muffler inlet pipe cracking?

for US 1982 diesel CS JX

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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[sphet]

Mark, Neil, thanks for the replies.

The new muffler is an ANZA from one of the North American vendors. I do have a replacement exhaust manifold downpipe, but I do not think I will install it because the existing one looks really solid when I removed the old muffler and I don't want to risk breaking the studs. It can go in the attic just in case.

I went back and measured and I was wrong - the two mufflers are different sizes - the new one is shorter, but you can see the extra gap in there between the new muffler and the ear that makes it up. They're not that far off on the muffler.

But here's where the first problem is. Look how out of square the passenger side ear is:

And here's the other problem - the intake side is not straight, so I can't even get the driver's side ear aligned to get bolts through both slotted holes without enlarging one of them:

Neil, I do have part #25. My van is generally unmolested for it's age, so I would not be surprised if that is the original muffler? Here is the driver's side mount:

I guess when the rain stops I can go back out there and try to just put it all together and bend it into place. Do you think I could clamp on a piece of wood dowel and bend that intake port straighter? I don't really want to clamp it onto the downpipe, and bolt it up, only to end up cracking my downpipe. I could also experiment with enlarging the holes on the driver side ear and use some larger washers to hold it together.

Looking at the parts diagram above, it looks like there are slotted openings on the engine-side mount, but they didn't seem to give me enough room to maneuver around that bend in the intake pipe.

My gut today is to just count my losses, put the tail pipe on the old muffler, wrap some aluminum tape around the downpipe and bolt it all back together. I'll put the new muffler in the attic in case the old one finally rots out.

Any other ideas?
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1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee

[Vanagon Nut]

Thanks for pics. Kind of figured you had an unmolested exhaust.

ya IMO, the images show some obviously crappy manufacturing work; I saw the poor angle right away in the first image.

Maybe a layer or two of HVAC tin would help take up some of the slack at down pipe to muffler inlet? However. I still think that one or both of those pipes will malform poorly given that they're thinner than new. Maybe I'm a pessimist and hard to say via pics and text, but i don't think you'll quell the noise and or leak if that union is the source.

Some thoughts if you want to install the new muffler:

- Plate muffler inlet pipe is welded to is likely stronger than the inlet pipe so even with a clamp over the inlet pipe (even if thick and same length as pipe), there might still be a risk of malforming (ovalling) the inlet pipe if you try to straighten it. But, if you do try it, if possible, use a steel or copper pipe/rod in lieu of wood dowel. And for a clamp, cut a piece of steel pipe in halve, shape it so there's a gap between halves then clamp that onto inlet pipe?

edit: looking at inlet pipe pic again, my gut tells me to leave it alone. If it meant that the tail pipe sat lower or higher, I'd live with that.

- as you noted elongate (oval) the slotted holes longer as needed on both brackets at muffler bracket first. You could even do same on brackets on engine maybe even at passenger side bracket.

- use wide fender type washers to compensate (shim) for poor angle at bracket on muffler? If no:

- as a last resort bend the bracket on muffler

- if a weld(s) broke or cracked, once muffler fits, get a weldor to repair muffler part on bench or even after installed.

If you decide to remove the down pipe, also apply penetrating fluid to back side of stud. Sometimes, if a nut is stuck on stud, the stuck nut will cause the stud itself to thread out of the flange.

A quick look online suggests you could find new studs for manifold outlet. I bet they're used on other VW's. Welding torch or MAPP gas heat applied at each nut or even at flange where stud screws in, would help to loosen up the nut or even the stud.

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/usa/vanagon/va/1982-4/2/253-35020/

Part number N 90008203 threaded pin M8X20

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[sphet]

Neil,

Thought I would close the loop on this one. After elongating one of the holes I was able to get the new muffler on. Bolting it into place bent the ear into the right spot and everything torqued down without apparent issue. I ended up leaving the exhaust manifold down pipe where it is, as it seems quite solid. Thanks again for your help.

Tailpipe I was replacing:

New tailpipe and muffler:

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1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee

[MarkWard]

Glad you sorted it out. This is very common with aftermarket parts for a lot of vehicles. We spend a lot of time making things fit that should fit. That said, we have multiple welders, lathe, mill, bench sanders etc. Thanks for the update.
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[Vanagon Nut]

Nice that it all worked out. Physics wins! Did that new clamp come with the muffler or down pipe?

The tail pipe image reminds me that I need to get on that job; the tail pipe on my old ABA swap went MIA somewhere; it totally rusted off from the flange.

It's raining today so a good day to try some welding.

Neil.

[sphet]

The muffler didn’t come with the clamp. I sourced it separately. I had to buy two for the shipping to be free. It seems some “OEM” vendors include the clamp tack welded, but others don’t. For any 82 diesel owners looking to change their muffler make sure you ask the vendor as some vendors don’t stock the clamp even though the muffler they sell does not include it.
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1982 Diesel Westfalia 1.6 NA - The Shellakabuukiee