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Has anyone tried this?
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

Ohio Tom wrote:
jpaull wrote:
Ohio Tom wrote:
I will offer an alternate opinion.

I know folks sell the crap out of these things. The hook wearing out is common on older VW's. This is commonly sold fix to the worn hook problem.
I'm a bit skeptical.

2 things:

1. Has this new design been tested with over 100,000mi of driving?
Because the stock one lasted at least that long before wearing out. Will this new design last at least as long? Data?

2. They look to solve the hook issue, but I worry that we have just moved the problem to a new place. It seems to load the cable eyelet at one place with this new design. I can imagine that the wear at the point of contact is likely accelerated since it's only one tiny spot that sees all of the load.


I have always just welded up the hook and re-shaped it with a grinder.
I usually add width to the hook giving a much larger surface to ride on.
You can effectively double the width of the hook with weld. This means twice as much material to wear away before failure.
I figure my weld/repair is good for 200,000mi.

Flame on...


How do you figure they load the cable eyelet? It has a bushing inside it now! there is virtually no wear whatsoever lol
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These have been around for years, not exactly a new gimmick or anything.


No wear?
Have you taken it apart and looked at it after 20,000mi?
50,000mi?

Just asking how you know it's not wearing right now?


Yes! Stage 1 clutch in my daily driver after 18k zero wear. I pulled it back apart to re-enforce the clutch tube in 3 spots.

In my other 60, the upgrade has survived many years of drag races with a stage 2 kennedy clutch, so the miles are not much, but they are hard miles, or we should say its racking up its life a quarter mile at a time.

The stock hook is made for the stock clutch. The whole point of the performance section is the upgrades needed when we upgrade, so as you say, ohio tom, your strengthing the stock setup might be a good way that works for you. Maybe show some pictures. Whats that look like?

The people that have tried this upgrade, can indeed say that it has worked and its a great way to go. When you go up in clutch pressure, the stock hook just doesnt cut it.
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
I've had my 1970 since 1972, and my 1971 since 1976.

I have had the clutch cable break exactly once each on each VW. Each VW has had the clutch hook replaced exactly once.

I imagine if one was going to replace the clutch hook anyway, would be OK. But to me definitely not worth the labor to do this when a clutch hook is OK.


Of course! But your running your 1835 and Maybe squeaking out 75 horsepower right? Stock clutch right? The stock hook will be fine in those applications.

This is the performance forum, so some of us will be running more horsepower and running more then the stock clutch.
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King_vw61
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

I have one also. clutch is a Stage 2 220mm. I installed it thinking it would help the car survive with a stage 2 on the street. Seems to be fine so far. Just over 2200 miles on the build. Plenty of rough use of the clutch.
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jpaull
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

chrisflstf wrote:
The bushing is round, but the eyelet in the cable end isnt, so wear will be at the contact points. Still an improvement over stock. Does the bushing rotate freely?


It rotates freely over its axle, but it does not rotate inside the clutch eyelet of course. depending on the brand of clutch cable, they fit different. Last cable i bought, was perfect cause it was tad small, and i was able to drill it a little and it was almost round and fit perfect and tight around the bushing.
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Critter1
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

Here is how the bushing usually sits inside the eyelet out of the box. Two points of contact. I've had this setup in all of my ACVWs. I take about 30 seconds with a pencil die grinder and slightly round out the eyelet until the bushing has full contact or at least contact with three sides of the eyelet. I do not have a photo of after its rounded out. You'll have to use your imagination. I'll let you know WHEN its lasted 100,000 miles.... Wink

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nextgen
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

Guys, for sure if I have a problem I will replace it with the upgraded version.

As one of the other said what clutch do you have, which obviously would be the part that need extra force to open and relate to excess wear.

My first ride in my bug back in 1989 with my T-4 engine, the biggest impression was the gripping power of my 210 mm BUS clutch.

We are talking 30 years -- same pedal Assembly, different cables?????

All I have done is shoot some oil on it, exactly when--- mmmmm, don't remember, but I did.
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Onceler
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

Looks weak and bendy and/or cracky for a performance application. I like strong since this is the performance section Wink
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modok
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

A good strong pivot would be a hardened and ground pin in double sheer.

Every engineer knows that....

Take a look at a new cable... the cable end loop.... isn't very round, and it isn't very hard. I suppose it can't be hard, because it has to be crimped onto the cable. I am not sure how this was supposed to work.

We recently learned the rocker arms are SUPER hard, carbo-nitrided over 60 hrc. Miracles of MASS production.
Perhaps the original clutch cables had some kind of trick that made them far more durable, tho I don't know what it was. Folks in those days probably forgot more about aviation control cables than we even know now.


An elegant solution IMO, would have be use a single link of roller chain. make the "cable end" two pieces, instead of one piece. Cable ferule with a smaller singular hole + a single link of chain costs only a few cents......
a, miracle of mass production Wink
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Onceler
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

Are you suggesting increasing the price of a clutch cable? There’s more money in clutch shafts Rolling Eyes
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

I have over 50k miles on mine (yes, I drive my car almost daily), and I have not had a problem. Kennedy stage 1 1700lb pressure plates.

With the stock hook in the Thing there would be a creaking sound that would occur after the winter months. This meant taking the pedal cluster out and re-lubing or attempting to spray a spray lubricant into the tunnel via the shifter mounting hole (the creak was not due to the clutch cable tube coming loose since I had that welded and reinforced).

Anyways the seller was a regular at Kelley Park and I talked to him every year but was stubborn and kept with the hook. Finally one year I paid for the hook replacement and the next time I had the pedal assembly out I replaced it and have not had a creak since.

I know there are different offset hooks for various years to help align the cable with the tube and it was a concern but mine aligned properly.

Welding and grinding the hook is always another way, and there are also HD hooks like the Fumio hook if you can find one.

This works really well for me in my convertible that gets driven.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

Onceler wrote:
Looks weak and bendy and/or cracky for a performance application. I like strong since this is the performance section Wink

My bad... I guess I forgot this is the “performance section” 🤣.... I've had zero issues with this piece. So far about 10-11k miles, 2194cc engine and a stage two clutch in a Notchback. I suppose the piece would bend if you crushed it in a vise. It rotates over the shaft with no play.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

When I rebuilt my 67 bug RHD pedal assembly, it had a crudely fabbed clutch hook. I cut part one of these modern clutch hooks to work on the RHD assembly.
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liquidrush
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

Well I got it in and installed it, only took a couple of minutes with re adjusting the clutch cable. The stud has a brass or most likely a bronze sleeve type bearing on it that rotates independently of the stud itself so when you press the clutch the stud moves along an arc with the pedal while the cable end is not subjected to any friction at all. The stud is just a steel shoulder bolt that has a hex head and is welded in place. If you look up shoulder screw on mcmaster.com you'll see what it is. I have a replacement cable that I'll modify for a better fit and report back but it looks like a pretty cool part to add. Greased everything up very well and wiped off the excess after a test drive.
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petrol punk
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

It looks nice, but I'm a cheapass so when I noticed my hook was worn I welded a small partially threaded bolt to where the hook was and nyloc'd it. Almost the same thing except no nice bronze bushing.
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Steve Arndt
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone tried this? Reply with quote

Another feature is not having to worry about the cable falling off the hook when installing the new cable.
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