Earliest brown faced speedo?

[johnshenry]

Having discussions with a hardcore early VW enthusiast/friend about early brown faced speedos. He has a May '49 split he is restoring (Well, that convertible 2 seater kind of split) and is looking for date coded correct parts for it. We recently found an April '49 brown faced speedo mounted in a Feb '49 brown pod. Seems a very rare part. I have a Sept '49 speedo with a "full circle" brown face also.

So when was the first brown faced speedo used? I we have seen many grey/blue faced ones in standards '49 and even '50, but it is observed that VW always used the nicest/newest parts in the deluxes, 'verts, etc, and kept using the older version in the std until they were used up, or for spare parts.

Anyone have data/images, etc on when the first brown face speedo came out. This April one clearly pre dates the first ivory bakelite pod...
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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[ZENVWDRIVER]

According to (the late) JT Garwood this change, occurred at Ch. No. 1-0 106 636, June 1949- the graphics of the speedo face was re designed and a new clock, the same size and with the same graphics, as the new speedo was added to the ever growing standard-equipment list on deluxes - These were optional on the standard models (page 109 - in Car of the Century)
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON

All super-heroes, wear a MASK

[sled]

here we go with the Garwood references again.

that book is full of more incorrect information, than correct information.
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drive your split.

[peter schepens]

[ZENVWDRIVER]

[ZENVWDRIVER]

[peter schepens]

I did not wanted to offend anyone in my reply... Here I uploaded the picts on the first production model Hebmuller. It is hard to see what speedo is in it but with all the trim, bumpers, dash pods, clock .. it is for me the most plausible answer that the speedo was also the later ( june ) deluxe model as seen on later cars. The earlyer one with VW logo in the upper part I think was not used on the Hebmuller. To bad, so litle period picts are known where the speedo is visible to see details. To be complete, I am since long time in contact with the owner of that Heb and helping him out with the search for details and history. Thanks Peter

If you like Hebmuller, take a look here
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Zelensis, glassfibre body made in Belgium , disigned and built on a VW platform About 25 body's built.
Hebmuller info wanted for http://www.hebmueller-registry.com/home.html

[ZENVWDRIVER]

… The new brown-dial clock is very visible in your pictures and IF this application follows suite with the new June of '49 models, then I'll assume the new speedometer face was also used. .. I am the rookie in this conversation and (might) know the least, but a certain amount of logic could also be used... I would have been in the dark, had I not familiarized myself with the new June of '49 features from Mr. Garwood - wish he was around to defend himself, concerning his findings, but we'll all have a chance to join him in eternity - So, make your impressions on the VW community now.

I know, you-all are seeking a more concrete answer - so i'll sit back, with Mr Garwood and enjoy the thread...

… off subject - this was my 1948 P15 - Plymouth's coupe convertible, with front seat, only = Heb-like, IMHO...

wish I still had it...
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON

All super-heroes, wear a MASK

[johnshenry]

First production Heb aside, then why would we have a brown faced speedo, with a VW part number dated April 1949?? What was that used in? Not a Heb, and not a deluxe split????
_________________
John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[peter schepens]

[johnshenry]

I'll post a picture of it when I am back in my shop. Interesting about the March '40 autoshow pictures, thanks for sharing those....
_________________
John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[splitjunkie]

It's been common knowledge for years that he Garland books are chock full of mistakes. They should be marked "for entertainment only".

As far as the brown faced April speedo, It may be original but could it also be possible that it was reworked at some point and got a new face plate?

I have always wondered how VW supplied the bodies to Hebmuller and Karmann. We know they supplied bodies with no roof but what else was supplied with the shell when it was delivered? Was it on a pan with an engine and a couple of boxes full of all of the parts needed to finish the car once the coachwork was done? Or did they supply just the body, or body with pan and possibly engine and then supply the rest of the parts once the coachwork was done? Supplying the shell alone would have been easier for the coach builder as they wouldn't have to store the pan and all of the other parts while the coachwork was being done.
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld

[peter schepens]

About Hebs, The body went from VW to Hebmuller factory by train, No roof on it, no front valance on it and heater channel bottom only spotwelded with 8 spots.
Pict from VW where you see probably a Karmann body( sema in the back)

THe chassis went also on train from vw to the factory. Rolling chassis, engine included. Parts were send in a different load. As Hebmuller was anoyed that the steering shafts, wheel and tube were shipped not with the chassis. This was hard to move them from train loading dock to the storage hall. It is seen on pict that the workers sitting in front of the chassis, steering by hand on the steering house. Note on the convoy. Plain black wheels, still need to be painted in second color.

No front valance visible here

Most parts went from VW to Heb but parts that vw bought out house, were also shipped from the supplier to Heb. No proof of that but whould make sence . I think on Hella, bosch, Swf, ... to name a few.

storage of chassis in the back of the hall. Pict from 1950.
I do not know how long it took from shipping a body to a finished Heb. I do konw that some chassis stood for over a 2 months in storage. For example, Heb nr 5 was finished end on 21 june, the chassis left Vw in april . it is not clear if the body went with the chassis as they had no nrs on it . Body nr was stamped at Hebmuller as far as I know. Chassisnr was stamped at VW.
_________________
Zelensis, glassfibre body made in Belgium , disigned and built on a VW platform About 25 body's built.
Hebmuller info wanted for http://www.hebmueller-registry.com/home.html

[splitjunkie]

Cool. Thanks Peter. I had seen the LIFE magazine pictures, the top one, before but the other ones I have not.
_________________
Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld

[ZENVWDRIVER]

[ZENVWDRIVER]

… saw this on youtube - has the newer style brown-dial speedo and matching clock - early one? - Dunno.

1949 Volkswagen Hebmüller Cabriolet at Cars ... - YouTube
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON

All super-heroes, wear a MASK

[johnshenry]

I agree Garwood is very inaccurate. As for how to know what is right, you just have to find as many sources as you can and make your own conclusion. Garwood is in conflict with many other sources, such as Progressive Refinements and other publications.
_________________
John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[ZENVWDRIVER]

[EverettB]

[ZENVWDRIVER]