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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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 Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:05 am Post subject: Clone AA500 head castings? Update: Solved! clone AA502 |
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Just saw a post on FB that called into question the authenticity of some advertised AA heads. Upon receipt of the heads the usual AA markings were removed and a new 'classic line' logo was etched in its place. The person purchasing the parts contacted the vendor just to be told 'they are from the same factory'.
Im wondering if these are rejected seconds or clone.
Anyone have any experience with this product line?
The red flag for me is the milled casting identification numbers. Like the 049 heads that were rejected by RM quality control to then have the ID removed and then resold by empi. Seems like a lot of back door deals coming out of china
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bugguy1967
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Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4341
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Clone AA 500 head castings? |
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Do they cost less?
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Clone AA 500 head castings? |
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How could they cost less? 
It's not an AA500 casting, the intake ports are different, and it has two cooling fins by the exuast studs, and it has siamese first cooling fin instead of one thick one, so, clearly it is not a AA500 casting.
Bugpack and Empi had NEW heads too,
maybe they are made made in the same factory?  |
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7213
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Clone AA 500 head castings? |
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They are AA knock offs. - An earlier design as I understand it. The heads themselves are reasonably OK. I donīt trust the guides, valves and springs for anything serius. Out of the box the valve to guide tolerances are often close to "worn" In the stock valved version the intake port volume differ a lot from head to head. Some are OK, some have WAY to much port volume, which results in sloppy performance. They are sold by the dozens in other parts of the World where the currency is not as strong as "ours"
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8501
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Clone AA 500 head castings? |
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| bugguy1967 wrote: |
| Do they cost less? |
https://www.coolairvw.co.uk/product/ac101344/
Totally weird ad for them.
| Quote: |
Replacement new 044 twin port cylinder head to fit 1600cc + Type 1 engines.
These cylinder heads are 50% stronger over the stock casting and have big stainless steel valves and higher flow ports
35.5mm exhaust valve
40mm inlet valve
8mm valve stems
Quality: Good quality
Quantity: Sold each
Fitting: Requires long reach W8CC spark plugs, see part number 000057003SET
Fitment: It is possible to use these on a Type 25 or T3 with a 1600cc CT engine if you also fit Type 1 1600cc barrels and pistons.
Measurements: 53cc |
My 502 AA heads still used the regular plug but didnt the the 500 casting go to the 12mm plug not the 14mm long reach? Also arent AA chambers around 61cc or so?
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[email protected]
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Joined: August 15, 2002
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Location: Brew City
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Clone AA 500 head castings? |
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I just clicked the link and HOLY SHIT!!!
First, they are describing them as 044 heads. I don't know what kind of protection CB has but I do know they trademarked and those are NOT 044 heads, not even close.
Two, $357 per head? WOW.....just WOW.
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slalombuggy
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Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9145
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Clone AA 500 head castings? |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
I just clicked the link and HOLY SHIT!!!
First, they are describing them as 044 heads. I don't know what kind of protection CB has but I do know they trademarked and those are NOT 044 heads, not even close.
Two, $357 per head? WOW.....just WOW. |
Value Added Tax and shipping drive up the price on anything imported. An engine builder friend of mine said by the time he got a set of CNC CB heads to England they were worth almost $2000 USD. |
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mark tucker
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Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Clone AA 500 head castings? |
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so who is knocking off the chineessee's stuff now...inda?  |
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Erik G
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
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Location: PNW
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Clone AA 500 head castings? |
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They match the pictures YOU supplied of, the "502" head.
On page three of YOUR sticky
With the exception of the spark plugs. However that is a mater of machining, not the casting itself.
It is surely the same Dies (aka molds, except, die casting)
| AlteWagen wrote: |
 502 No longer in production. 40x35, 14mm short plug, heart chamber, solid chamber, 3 full fins.
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modok
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Clone AA 500 head castings? |
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"Authentic" AA?
is that like, authentic harbor freight, central machinery? 
Not complaining, just sayin. |
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AlteWagen
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Joined: February 23, 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Clone AA 500 head castings? |
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Good catch! I got my 502s directly from Johnny (AA sales rep) right at the time they changed foundry for the 501/502 back in 2011-2012 while working at a local speed shop. They stopped production of the 502 at that time as the improved 500 casting (with extra material at the port flange) was released.
| Alstrup wrote: |
| They are AA knock offs. - An earlier design as I understand it. The heads themselves are reasonably OK. I donīt trust the guides, valves and springs for anything serius. Out of the box the valve to guide tolerances are often close to "worn" In the stock valved version the intake port volume differ a lot from head to head. Some are OK, some have WAY to much port volume, which results in sloppy performance. They are sold by the dozens in other parts of the World where the currency is not as strong as "ours" |
This makes complete sense. The 501s I have were the ones with the 'dropped port' issue which made the port floor extremely thin and had a pretty severe dogleg. Dont remember why he said they changed foundries, maybe they kept the prototype molds and continue to crank them out.
One other question, is that auto group based in denmark?
Johnny was the one who told me of all the back door 'brown box' specials that happen in china. All those pistons that AA rejects in QC end up being sold to the public by the manufacturer once any identifying marks are removed. If you ever see a AA product in a brown box with markings removed you better pass on by.
This happened to RM and look what happened, they no longer offer their product. Id be pissed if I took my product to be manufactured somewhere and then they sell it out the back at half the price.
What you are saying is exactly my point. Same factory different sticker? Lets take Autolinea for example a few years back they produced the VW 043, CB 044 and the GO1. Same factory,3 different products with VASTLY different quality standards. When I got my 501s and 502s AA had the bare castings imported and finish machine work was done at Brothers. Not sure if that is still the case but according to some other recent threads on FB the quality has dropped a bit on the genuine 501s as well.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1529589444006140/p...3483430394
The crack between the seats is typical on 44x37 but the guide clearance is real bad.
The industry is very incestuous and its obvious that some of the players are irritated when the curtain gets pulled back on all the shenanigans.
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Last edited by AlteWagen on Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
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Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Clone AA500 head castings? Update: Solved! clone AA502 |
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You are correct. That "Group" is based in Denmark. The same company that provides fairly good heater boxes, and now also fairly decent stock exhausts. They have a lot of crap, and a few good parts in their portefolio. I will say, that their quality is improving in general, but not enough for my cuppa tea. I buy a few parts from them which I know is good and leave the rest for the mob and I am sadly not even kidding.
The "new" chinese cast 044 looks VERY nice out of the box, but once you take it apart the same issues are still present something like 3 out of 5 times.
Their Porsche line is significantly better on average.
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