Help with A/C Decisions

[Love My Westy]

The A/C in my late '86 model Weekender is not blowing cold this year. In the past I have been able to just add a can of R-12 (I had a secret stash), but now I'm down to just 3 cans left and I would like to get the system fixed. I could just add some more R-12, but it would leak out by next year and I'd be in the same boat only with fewer reserve cans.

Today, I went to talk to some experts at Auto Air in Salt Lake City, but it appears they are no longer in business much to my disappointment. I then went to my VW mechanic who told me of the difficulties of getting all the right parts and suggested it would be very expensive if I needed to replace all the hoses. He said he did not have R-12 but I should try getting the system evacuated and then add leak dye and refilled with R-12. He suggested I go as the Mercedes mechanic a few doors down who might have some R-12 and leak dye. Then we could check for the leaks and repair them as necessary. I made an appointment to take the van in next week, but on the way home I remembered that my A/C compressor appears to be leaking oil. I think I should postpone the new leak test until after I replace the compressor.

What I'm looking for is what order should I do things in. I believe there still may be recoverable R-12 in the system as in the past it has only taken only 1 can to get it blowing cold. Last summer it took 2 cans.

I've been trying to read other Samba threads on the subject but soon get over my head having no HVAC training.

Please help guide me.

[Abscate]

Please stop adding R12 to your system until it is fixed. Love the rest of us at least 1/10 as you love your Westy

A good AC will hold charge for 10 years. I have a 2003 VW with original charge from a Germany.
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.ssS!

[Howesight]

If it takes the whole camping season for your refrigerant to leak out of your system, then you could simply install RedTek or one of the other brands of hydro-carbon refrigerants.

If you do so, you should add some mineral oil because some of the original install of mineral oil has likely leaked out. RedTek is compatible with mineral oil or with PAG oil, which is the kind of oil used in a system set up for R134A refrigerant. RedTek runs at lower head pressures than R134A and gives cooling efficiency equal to R12 without the environmental impact.

Frankly, redoing your AC system on a Westfalia is a lot of work, but it none of that work is complicated. Many Samba members have documented their AC system rebuilds here on the Samba with excellent pics and commentary.

If you decided to do this refurbishing yourself, I would strongly suggest that you buy a modern parallel-flow condenser for best performance. I used one from Nostalgic Air, the 16" by 24" unit if I recall correctly. See this link:

https://nostalgicac.com/catalog/product/view/id/267/s/16-x-25-superflow-r-134a-condenser/

A full rebuild involves:

1. Install new compressor;
2. Replace all hoses. (Cut them out and use them as templates to measure for new hoses, re-using all metal fittings that can be salvaged.
3. Replace receiver-drier;
4. Replace thermal expansion valve (TXV);
5. Remove evaporator core and clean exterior of evaporator and flush oil out of interior;
6. Lubricate or replace evaporator fan motors;
7. Replace all O-rings in the system and all Schrader valves;
8. Use 8 fluid ounces of PAG oil. As for viscosity, use the recommendation of the compressor manufaturer.


With the above refurbishment, any future owner of the vehicle could easily release the RedTek and install R134A with no difficulty if they are shy about using RedTek.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[CessnaJon]

Just performed an a/c overhaul in my 90 Multivan. I use Redtek refrigerant with mineral oil with excellent results. The hoses were expensive to replace, but worth it in the end. The biggest improvement came from removing the evaporator and cleaning all the foam and other crud from the fins, and leaving the plenum off. I admit, it looks a little unfinished with the plenum removed, but the difference in airflow from the fans is astonishing. With the plenum, I had to run the fans at maximum continuously to get any hint of cool air to the front of the bus. Very noisy. With the plenum off I run the fans on speed 2 with the thermostat at half.

You can do this yourself. Study the Redtek thread here on the Samba, take your time, and do it right the first time.
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1973 Westy (shared birthday)
1990 Westy Multivan
2015 Passat TDI 6sp
2015 Sportwagon TDI 6sp
LR-JET, Gulfstream 159

[dougnlina]

It probably boils down to how much work, time and money can you or are you willing to put into the project. You may be able to have the system purged, flushed, and then refill with R-134 with a dye. Correct the leaks (dye) then and accept some leakage through the hoses, but It sounds more like you need to take a whole system apart and overhaul the beast. This would include at a minimum having the R-12 removed from your system and then replacing the hoses and leaking compressor. (BTW if your compressor is leaking that is probably where your R-12 is leaking as well because the oil is what actually carries the refrigerant through the system). I just did a Small Car conversion system on my van and it works fine but I will say that the stock system (in a tintop) in good condition is a superior system as it cools the whole van and not just the front. I ended up replacing my stock system because the overhead unit was collapsing, the plastic in shatters, the drain broken and was leaking. (I am also considering converting the van to a pop-top so having everything off of the ceiling helps.)
The hoses are not difficult to make, or you could pull them all out and take them to a shop to make them. It honestly would take more time to get everything in and out than it would take to make the hoses. The compressor is straight-forward to replace. The condenser and evaporator at the very least would need to be flushed, and the dryer should be replaced anytime the system has been opened. Bottom line is it takes a bunch of time that either you yourself will have to commit to, or pay someone elseto do the work which will get expensive.
I would probably start by changing the compressor, flushing the system, recharging with R-134, fix the leaks and then see if it holds the charge, and if not, then commit to new hoses, and if needed condenser and evaporator.
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"Olive" a '60 Ragtop Beetle
"Grover" a '87 Syncro Poptop 1.8T

[jimf909]

[Love My Westy]

[Abscate]

[MarkWard]

I'm reviving my 90 camper AC system. I removed all the original lines. I then purchased all the hose and ends I needed from the local Hydraulic Supply house. I fitted them up and brought them back to be crimped. I used masking tape and a permanent marker to index them. With $20 tip total was $200.

I bought a dual pass 16 x 22 AC condensor off ebay for $70 shipped including tax. I fabricated my own mounting brackets. New quality expansion valve and dryer were around $75. I'm planning to reuse the compressor initially. Its been replaced at some point and I drained and refilled the crankcase. Will be using R134

Its a lot of labor. There is also a lot of old brittle plastic to remove and reinstall. Time could add up quickly.

As far as the UV leak check die, You can add that without emptying the system. Most shops should have an inline cup that fits the testing manifold. If I had to bet, it's probably the compressor shaft seal leaking if it lasts a season. Looking forward to having mine going soon.
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☮️

[Abscate]

[Love My Westy]

Still trying to sort this out. I have ordered a new compressor and receiver/dryer from GW.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/air-conditioning/3811/ac-compressor?v=
They appear to be 3 to 6 weeks out which is ok because it give me time to get replace my hoses.

I have since looked at VanCafe's site and found that they appear to offer a different Compressor:
https://www.vancafe.com/253260797A-p/253260797a.htm
It looks like there will be no delay in getting it.

Their discussion about needing new hoses with different fittings has me wondering if I should cancel the GW compressor.

I have found a radiator/AC shop in Salt Lake that will make me new hoses. They will use my original fittings and weld them on to the new hoses, but if I need a different fitting to fit the compressor I don't know where to find that.

Another question I have is about RedTek. If I use it, will it work with the new R-134 compressor, hoses, o-rings etc.

I couldn't find the Redtek discussion when I searched RedTek. Can someone give me the link? I thought there was a sticky on it.

[MarkWard]

My advice would be to work with R134. It’s plentiful and recoverable by all AC shops.

I would not make up hoses till you have the compressor. The majority of the hose ends are standard. The exceptions are the compressor fittings and my AC had a fitting in the evap hose with a fill port and a pressure port for the AC sensor. Those were cut and had new barbs welded on.
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[Love My Westy]

[Ahwahnee]

[Love My Westy]

[SyncroHead]

I've had TWO Vanagons converted to R134 by my shop in southern CA. Bottom line is that this conversion isn't nearly as extensive or expensive and some say.

My vans:
1987 Passenger Van Syncro - Converted in 2012 and still working great
1989 Westy 2WD - Converted in Sept 2019 and working great (better be after only 9 months!)

On BOTH conversions we used ALL the existing hoses. None needed to be changed and none have had any signs of leaking. I realize the Westy was just last year, so too soon for a longevity test with that one, but it's been 8 years for the Syncro R-134 conversion and no issues.

On BOTH conversions we kept in the existing expansion valve. A real pain to get to if you need to change it in either a passenger can or a Westy.

On BOTH conversions we replaced the receiver-dryer. This is a relatively inexpensive item and can retain the old oil and crud from the old system so they must be replaced.

On the 87 Syncro in 2012 we installed a rebuilt compressor.

On the 89 Westy last year we installed the same new unit you've ordered from GoWesty. This is the modern equivalent to the old unit which is no longer made and is exactly the right unit.

So my advice, given two positive conversions, is to have your shop:
1. Add refrigerant dye to the existing system to find any existing leaks. If leaks are found they'll need to be addressed in addition to the following.
2. Evacuate the system - really well.
3. Replace the receiver-dryer
4. Pay careful attention to the oil that the new unit may or may not come pre-charged with. Also, since the long hoses in the Vanagon use a larger volume of refrigerant, it's possible that additional oil may be needed. Make certain any added oil matches what the compressor comes with.
5. Replace the compressor with the new unit
6. Charge with R-134
7. Enjoy your van's coolness.

Jim Davis
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"A Vanagon? It's not a car or a van. It's a hobby!"

Check out:
www.VANAVATION.com
www.SyncroSafari.org and
www.Vanagons.org

[ledogboy]

Hey Jim-

Do you mind sharing the shop you used? I am new to SoCal (after a lifetime in SF) and need to deal with my AC. As encouraging as some of the A/C threads are, it still feels like a black art and I am hesitant to dig in...
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1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice...

[SyncroHead]

[ledogboy]

Awesome- many thanks! I likely never paid attention to your past recommendations thinking I would never live down here. Life is chock full of curveballs....
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1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice...