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mdl3051
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2020
Posts: 50
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:55 pm Post subject: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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I'm making good progress on a wheel arch repair on my 72 bay window. One trouble spot that's right up against the seam.
Struggling with deciding next steps. Should I just clean as best I can apply some rust inhibitor and patch carefully? If I go any further I'm not sure how to rebuild the seam with this frame piece AND the new wheel arch.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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Angus II
Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2016
Posts: 708
Location: Mammoth Lakes Ca. 93546
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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Hello,
Welcome to rust repair....
You have what is called "a bucket of worms"... Keep cutting... |
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babysnakes
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008
Posts: 7107
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mdl3051
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2020
Posts: 50
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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| Angus II wrote: |
Hello,
Welcome to rust repair....
You have what is called "a bucket of worms"... Keep cutting... |
Thanks but I’m fine with worms. Just looking for real technical advice on how to approach this particular bucket. If I do cut it out, how do I rebuild the seam with multiple layers involved. 75% of the way through this bus so learned a lot of good tricks and just looking for solid advice before going forward. Thanks. |
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mdl3051
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2020
Posts: 50
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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I don’t know the name of the vertical body frame piece but even if I buy this part, don’t understand how I weld to that vertical piece. Also it’s welded so need to rebuild it first I assume. |
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babysnakes
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008
Posts: 7107
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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| mdl3051 wrote: |
I don’t know the name of the vertical body frame piece but even if I buy this part, don’t understand how I weld to that vertical piece. Also it’s welded so need to rebuild it first I assume. |
The vertical piece is the C pillar (third pillar from front). As far as I know those are not being reproduced. Either rebuild it yourself or find a repro pillar that is close and make it work. As far as attaching the body panel, drill a few holes in the panel at the pillar and weld away. You could also use a panel bonding product. |
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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| Make cardboard templates from the piece before you cut it out. Take measurements. You will need to fix it, but you are not obligated to reproduce what the factory did where it can’t be seen. This the really time consuming part of body repair. More pictures would help. I try to come up with some advice. |
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mdl3051
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2020
Posts: 50
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:06 am Post subject: Re: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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| orwell84 wrote: |
| Make cardboard templates from the piece before you cut it out. Take measurements. You will need to fix it, but you are not obligated to reproduce what the factory did where it can’t be seen. This the really time consuming part of body repair. More pictures would help. I try to come up with some advice. |
Thanks for offering to give me some ideas. Here are some more pictures and comments:
#1 - Rust went right up to the seam so worried about patching the C pillar AND then attaching the outer wheel arch. Maybe it'll be fine but the rusted metal in the area isn't going to help.
#2 - that hole in the back is factory and you can see the rust doesn't go behind the pillar (good news)
#3 - Just showing teh rust on the front side of the pillar through an access hole I cut
#4 - More good news, the rust doesn't really go beyond the pillar
#5 - More good news - rust mostly below the floor level. Everything above the floor can be saved I think
#6 - Rust on the back side of the pillar but frame section is fine as well
Type of options I'm considering:
a) Just clean it up really good and find a way to patch the pillar as best I can and attach the wheel arch panel to what's left at the seam
b) Cut out the bad part of the arch and leave that space empty which would allow me to clean everything out and remake the seam fairly easily (I think)
c) Cut out the bad parts of the arch, rebuild the arch and rebuild the seam during the process (maximum work and don't know the best way to rebuild the arch without taking a lifetime.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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you have some really interesting cuts going on there. I don't understand the "window" above the short rocker
if you try to weld in that "window" you cut you will oil can that whole panel. you will have not only horizontal welds, but vertical welds. as you weld, stuff shrinks. not being able to hammer/dolly that area as you weld it result in that "window" basically puckering like a fogs ass in cold water causing a huge oil canning problem
now that I made fun of your window.... you need to get the Gerson panel like babysnakes posted...the 2 piece rocker deal.
cut that all out then you can access the C pillar lower support. unless something has changed in the last couple years, you have to fab that...it's not available. having said that, make DAM SURE that it is the EXACT height as the original. if it stands proud, you WILL have major issues putting the shorty rocker on and nothing will line up.
nothing personal but your cuts seem very random and unplanned. get the repair panels before doing any more cutting so you don't cut any higher than needed. the proper way to access that is to cut everything out of the way
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
you have some really interesting cuts going on there. I don't understand the "window" above the short rocker
if you try to weld in that "window" you cut you will oil can that whole panel. you will have not only horizontal welds, but vertical welds. as you weld, stuff shrinks. not being able to hammer/dolly that area as you weld it result in that "window" basically puckering like a fogs ass in cold water causing a huge oil canning problem
now that I made fun of your window.... you need to get the Gerson panel like babysnakes posted...the 2 piece rocker deal.
cut that all out then you can access the C pillar lower support. unless something has changed in the last couple years, you have to fab that...it's not available. having said that, make DAM SURE that it is the EXACT height as the original. if it stands proud, you WILL have major issues putting the shorty rocker on and nothing will line up.
nothing personal but your cuts seem very random and unplanned. get the repair panels before doing any more cutting so you don't cut any higher than needed. the proper way to access that is to cut everything out of the way |
We all start with the window...it's just surface rust on the outside...until we look inside. Out come the screwdrivers and poking implements...poke, poke, crunch...oh shit!
That panel just wants to revert to its original potato chip form as soon you start welding or look at it wrong. |
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mdl3051
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2020
Posts: 50
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
you have some really interesting cuts going on there. I don't understand the "window" above the short rocker
if you try to weld in that "window" you cut you will oil can that whole panel. you will have not only horizontal welds, but vertical welds. as you weld, stuff shrinks. not being able to hammer/dolly that area as you weld it result in that "window" basically puckering like a fogs ass in cold water causing a huge oil canning problem
now that I made fun of your window.... you need to get the Gerson panel like babysnakes posted...the 2 piece rocker deal.
cut that all out then you can access the C pillar lower support. unless something has changed in the last couple years, you have to fab that...it's not available. having said that, make DAM SURE that it is the EXACT height as the original. if it stands proud, you WILL have major issues putting the shorty rocker on and nothing will line up.
nothing personal but your cuts seem very random and unplanned. get the repair panels before doing any more cutting so you don't cut any higher than needed. the proper way to access that is to cut everything out of the way |
There was a rust spot where the window is that I needed to cut out anyway. Just so happened to give me a view of the front side of the pillar. Good point about the oil canning. I've done a few of these already and I take it super slow and came out ok. Just a little filler needed. But if I get the piece you guys are pointing me at then that problem goes away.
Last question. If I get the 2 piece rocker panel then how will I weld that to the pillar piece? Or will I just need to use panel adhesive for that part? |
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Mark
Samba Member
Joined: January 20, 2003
Posts: 1523
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Wheel arch repair - one bad rust spot - Advice? |
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I had this problem, my lower C pillars were shredded.
As mentioned, trial & error fitting a cardboard mockup and transfer the template to steel & fabricate.
Cardboard mockup
Metal ready to assemble.
Yet another test fit after adjusting...
Finished piece ready to install.
For all the panels being reproduced commercially I’m surprised this isn’t one of them, at least none I could find?
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